in bulk. anybody selling?

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Originally posted by norbu
in bulk. anybody selling?

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not in bulk, but you should be able to get many strains from either http://www.bio.utexas.edu/research/utex/index.html or here: http://herba.msu.ru/mirrors/www.helsinki.fi/kmus/botcryp.html there's a list of what went to SERI here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SERI_microalgae_culture_collection i think these guys got the SERI collection, and they should share given the NSF support, but the corporate links and other issues may make them fiesty. http://epscor.hawaii.edu/research/ and you can always ask marc at ecogenics where he got his strains please let us all know what you find out as there are many of us interested in playing around with some of these strains. maybe post your findings to a more general discussion or start a new thread. thanks! hamish

we will be offering the 25 oil producing algae strains in our culture collection soon. still have to work out a few details thesewill not be agar smears but live, thick concentrated cultures that will need immediate attention as soon as they are received. some of our seminar attendees who asked for cultures got them and from what weve heard all of them are growing them with great results,, our only concern is losses during shipping we dont want to be held responsible for the lousy job the post office is known to do and shipping through fedex or ups is pretty expensive.. once weve figured this out then well offer them if any one has suggestions on the best way to ship them cheaply let us please know. marc www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org Marc Orion Cardoso

I mean like tens of thousands of gallons of algae or more

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Originally posted by norbu
I mean like tens of thousands of gallons of algae or more

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what you're suggesting makes no sense ... why would you move such a quantitiy when growing it would be a million times cheaper? i.e. if you're going to grow algae, then you must have the facilities to grow it. if you're going to process it, then you should get it dried and work with more manageable quantities.. perhaps if you could tell us WHY you would want such amounts, the solution will be more apparent. hamish

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Originally posted by ecogenics3
we will be offering the 25 oil producing algae strains in our culture collection soon. still have to work out a few details thesewill not be agar smears but live, thick concentrated cultures that will need immediate attention as soon as they are received.

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This sounds really great and really helpful as it'll give lots of us a chance to play around with different ideas in different climates, etc. for shipping, you're right about the mail. and i just got a filter head from ups yesterday, it was wrapped in styrofoam and it was almost too hot to touch when i opened it! it had been sitting in the shade on my porch for at least an hour. fed ex overnight with a blue ice pack would work - maybe altogether cost $30-40 per container shipment, but that's totally affordable for people who are serious about all this. all best, hamish

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Originally posted by hamish

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Originally posted by norbu
I mean like tens of thousands of gallons of algae or more

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what you're suggesting makes no sense ... why would you move such a quantitiy when growing it would be a million times cheaper? i.e. if you're going to grow algae, then you must have the facilities to grow it. if you're going to process it, then you should get it dried and work with more manageable quantities.. perhaps if you could tell us WHY you would want such amounts, the solution will be more apparent. hamish

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my idea is to buy algae from a farmer, ship it to a warehouse with a huge transesterification tank, and sell the biodiesel to willie nelson

[/quote] my idea is to buy algae from a farmer, ship it to a warehouse with a huge transesterification tank, and sell the biodiesel to willie nelson [/quote] ok, you're maybe a little ahead of the game since people are only just now working out how to grow the stuff. would you know what to do with it if a truck showed up with ten tons of algae? do you have large scale extraction methods worked out? hamish

Hey Marc, I have a suggestion. I may just want to take a road trip to Tennessee and show up at your door step to purchase some of your algae in person. I could drop off some of my Guadelupe algae with you too. Would that be OK? What would be the best way to preserve the algae for the drive back to Texas? Some sort of portable refrigerator? Jerry Brown JBAuditrols Co. CEO 545 Turtle Lane Seguin, TX 78155 (830)743-6765

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Originally posted by hamish

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my idea is to buy algae from a farmer, ship it to a warehouse with a huge transesterification tank, and sell the biodiesel to willie nelson [/quote] ok, you're maybe a little ahead of the game since people are only just now working out how to grow the stuff. would you know what to do with it if a truck showed up with ten tons of algae? do you have large scale extraction methods worked out? hamish [/quote] first I want to see if the supplies are available I'll check in with the spirulina farms later this week

I suspect with the weight of this stuff that most processing will be done on site rather than shipping it.

Whoooooooooooooooaaah there Norbu... wait a minute, you have to get a grip on the reality of the situation first! Maybe you could pull that off someday, but as someone else said, you're getting a bit ahead of yourself there. No, waaaay ahead of yourself. I don't think you know what you're getting into. You think you're going to get into business just like that? How old are you man? Do you have any business experience or knowledge? You have a long ways to go. Surely someone like Marc can elaborate. He is only *just* working on getting the first *small* samples of oil from algae, with much work and effort! These questions just seem a little naive and silly to me given the early stages this is at and the technical difficulties that are obvious to anyone who has a bit of background on what is going on! You need to learn the basics of what the situation with algae-oil is here.... what you are asking for just doesn't exist yet!! Spirulina farms sell their algae at very high prices, you won't be making biodiesel out of their algae when it costs $20 per lb dry!! Nobody is growing oil producing algae in large quantities as far as I know, especially not in North America, and shipping algae long distances is cost-prohibitive. You'd have to have the biodiesel plant right there. You think you can just buy algae right now, transesterify it and ship it to Willie Nelson? No offense, but are you on crack??? I could use a little bit of what Norbu is smoking. ;)

I think norbu has been misled or is just making jokes to pass the time. If not he should know better.

spirulina is a very high ticket item as a health food and indeed it could feed the world..if you dry it and put it in gelcaps and sell it, it will bring 60 bucks an ounce, in the biofuel scenario it is one of the most favored hydrogen producers if starved of sulphut in an inert gas atmosphere. it beats chalmidomonas R and M as a candidate for a "living fuel cell" (when weve got biodiesel from algae technology down pat and in production (soon) well be moving on to hydrogen from algae in a stationary fuelcell scenario coupled to waste stream bioremediation. BUT it is NOT a prolific oil producer ranging from 7% to 14% oil . there are however other algae that are touted in the literature as containing up to 50% oil we have not seen that yet in our testing regimen the tiny bit of biodiesel we made came from one candidate amongst the twentyfive were testing and the only reason I even attempted it was due to a bad case of impatience despite the fact that it wasnt one of the algae in our culture collection that was considered to be one of the top oil producers but I am going through the algae in alphabetical order not by its reputed oil yeild but when i got oil out of one of them I just couldnt contain myself lolol. and this is not to say that biodiesel cant be made from spirulina but because of its low yeilds it may not be economically viable unless it is part of the cascading stream of value added products.many of the reputedly high oil bearing algae are for the most part marine algae requiring salt or brackish water,(spirulina requires an extremely alkaline water) this poses a problem in that it may be necessary to add a mix of minerals and chemicals (organic) to replicate ocean or brackish water fortunatly there are premixed (artificial ocean) products available. in addition there are nutrients needed unless the algae is produced as part of a waste stream bioremediation system these nutrients are not costly but do increase the managerial load.our preference is a closed loop scenario utilising wastes resulting from growing fish. because of all of the above,the chances that anyone will sell you algae in bulk at a reasonable price is not a viable concept considering logistics etc... etc.. etc... we will be constructing a fairly large algae to biodiesel production complex in texas if things pan out as we expect if willie nelson wants biodiesel from algae we'll be most happy to provide it to him in the near future.. check out the latest at our ever evolving website www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org Marc Orion Cardoso

sure, ill collect u some algae, norbu. 10$/lb and ill fed ex it, COD ofcourse. im sure willy could use some more fuel for his bus. i think its brilliant, get someone to grow 10000lbs of algae, fedex it in a cold state, and brew it up to sell it to willy. im sure willy is willing to pay 489$/gal for algaediesel... froggy

dear jerry. sure you can pop up just give us a weeks notice since we are slammed here and dont know from one day to the next what is coming or going...we are still debating selling the algae strains. we are in negotiations on various projects that may take up most of our time as i mentioned in an early post that shipping the algae and maintaining its viability are an issue since we woul;dnt be offering the algae on agar smears or in dilute solutions like most culture collections do.im really impressed by the yeilds you are claiming that guadalupe algae must be pretty incredible stuff. have you been able to identify it? if not send us a sample and well identify it for you. next week we are hosting a group from north carolina consisting of various biodiesel producers from that state also were going to be holding an alcohol production seminar at the end of this month and in addition we are also testing a series of alternative feedstocks for biodiesel and ethanol production and on top of that, we are preparing a proposal for a sustainable algae farming demonstration project that includes biodiesel from algae production in consort with our local university ... so its important that you notify us with plenty of time should you choose to come visit us. keep up the good work were very impressed with what you say you are doing down on the guadalupe. you know the virgin of guadalupe is the mexican saint of miracles. maybe the river named after her is also a source of miracles when it comes to biofuels... Marc Orion Cardoso

"The operating costs (including power consumption, labor, chemicals, and fixed capital costs (taxes, maintenance, insurance, depreciation, and return on investment) worked out to $12,000 per hectare. These costs are based on the design used by NREL - the simple open-top raceway pond." http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html I would like to buy a year's worth of algae yield from a hectare of simple open-top raceway ponds, for $24,000, which should yield 25,000 gallons of biodiesel or more

How do you think you're going to get someone to build this raceway pond for you? What guarantees can you give them that they will get their money and a return on their investment? Who will they sell it to if you can't process it the next year? You think someone will just build this for you just like that and assume that you will pay them later??? You're Joking right Norbu? Also, if they went through all the trouble and investment to build this *yet to be built* algae pond, which only exists on paper right now, why would they not go the extra bit to do the easy part of making it into biodiesel on-site, why on earth would they want to ship it all the way to you? Just so you can make money? What is in it for them? In business, if you are making a proposal like that, your proposal must have some value to the parties you are bargaining with. So far, your proposal offers nothing of any value to the algae farmer, especially if you are located any significant distance from them, they could make the biodiesel cheaper than you could, and make a better profit. If I were an algae-pond developer/owner, I'd just laugh at you.

Hi, I am interested in acquring algae strains with high oil content for cultivation. The strains are to be delivered to Thailand. Please advise on how the strains can be delivered or there are any place closer that can supply them. Thanks.

norbu, you had best finish reading that article. If their study was "Conclusive" Don't you think they would be producing oil bearing algae for themselves? Though I'll tell you what! You give me the $80,000 to build this algae pond/raceway plus the $24,000 up front for the algae that is to be produced. I will run the project "grow the algae" and ship it to you each harvest. You will have to pay for the shipping of course. If the system operates well, we can post our results on this forum and call NREl and everyone else a bunch of incompetent slackers. Though if the system fails do to temperature swings, weather conditions in general or pond contamination of wild algae, bacteria or other unpredictable invasive species. You will eat all the costs of course, and we will have confirmed exactly what that article said in the first place. From [url="http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html"]UNH Biodiesel Group[/url] "While the work on algae for fuel production done in the 1980s and 1990s focused almost entirely on the simple open pond approach, most groups now working in this field (including our collaboration) have shifted to focusing on the use of proprietary photobioreactors. The primary reason being that most of the problems encountered by prior work (takeover by low oil strains, vulnerability to temperature fluctuations, high evaporation losses, etc.) are primarily a result of using open ponds. Going with enclosed photobioreactors can immediately solve the bulk of the problems encountered by prior research. The obvious drawback though is cost - any photobioreactor design is going to be have a higher capital cost than a simple, open pond. At this point, a key factor in making algal biodiesel a commercial reality is the development of photobioreactors that can offer high yields (optimization of light path, etc.), but be built inexpensively enough to offer a reasonable payback rate (otherwise no company would be interested in building them). Improving processing technologies, and designing an integrated system to tie the algae production into other processes (i.e. wastestream treatment, power plant emissions reduction, etc.), can further improve the economics and payback rate. UNH and our collaborators are currently focusing on these issues, with the goal of making algal biodiesel a commercial reality"