To anyone who composts - do you use a "pile" approach (i.e. put stuff in a big pile that you periodically flip), or some form of compost container? If the latter, is it one you made, or something you bought? And if the latter in that last sentence - are you happy with what you bought (and what is it)?

We have been meaning to start composting at home ever since we bought the house a few years ago, but haven't gotten around to it - in part because we don't want to do the regular "pile" approach (looks (and can smell) nasty), and haven't found a nice barrel approach we like.

Mike,

The higher the temp, the faster (and more complete) the rot. So a sunny spot helps.

Water is also important. Some 'drums' dont allow water in and out. But not so much water that the system goes anaerobic.

Air and turning is also important. Again, the system is aerobic digestion so keep the air moving.

Pee'ing into the pile will do wonders for the pile and your future garden. Some even add N compounds into the pile but I find it much more entertaining to use it as my #1 toilet.

I use a 'chickenwire' fence concept with complete air and rain access. Its harder to turn but easy overall to run. I have not found a 'for sale' system that beats an open pile. But again, Im in the stix and landspace is not an issue.

froggy:

Mike,

The higher the temp, the faster (and more complete) the rot. So a sunny spot helps.

Water is also important. Some 'drums' dont allow water in and out. But not so much water that the system goes anaerobic.

Air and turning is also important. Again, the system is aerobic digestion so keep the air moving.

Pee'ing into the pile will do wonders for the pile and your future garden. Some even add N compounds into the pile but I find it much more entertaining to use it as my #1 toilet.

I use a 'chickenwire' fence concept with complete air and rain access. Its harder to turn but easy overall to run. I have not found a 'for sale' system that beats an open pile. But again, Im in the stix and landspace is not an issue.

Hm, are there any potential pathogen problems from urinating on a compost pile that is going to be used to fertilize a garden? (I know there are as far as putting human fesces on a compost pile)

The pile approach is also not appealing to us due to it attracting animals (we've had bears wander through our yard in the past. They are generally docile, but I'd prefer to not attract them if possible).

Since you know a lot about composting, how does this barrel composter look to you?

http://www.realgoods.com/product/home-outdoor/outdoor/yard-garden/continuous-use+composter.do

What seems appealing about it to me is that it (supposedly) time-separates the compost, so that you can more continually take from and add to it. Seems pretty small though.

THis one seems interesting also: http://www.realgoods.com/product/id/1008830.do

They also have this one: http://www.realgoods.com/product/home-outdoor/outdoor/composting/spinning+composter.do

Thanks.

peeing on your compost is a really good idea- it's a concentrated source of nitrogen. there aren't a lot of pathogens in urine (compared to feces for instance) so I wouldn't worry about it unless you had some serious disease and weren't treating your compost pile correctly (ie not turning it at the right times). If you really worry about that issue, download a free copy of The Humanure Handbook and see what evidence that author gives for how compost kills human pathogens. 

 

The point of a container versus a pile is to keep rats out. However , the downside is turning the pile. I like piles when rats aren't a problem (like where I am right now out on a farm setting), and am resigned to using containers when they are more of a problem (like in the city) 

 

 

It's so dry in Colorado I've never had any luck getting a pile to compost.  My project this spring is to make a composter out of an old plastic drum so it will retain moisture and heat. There are lots of drawings out on the intertubes describing such a machine -- I hope to possibly start composting my KOH glycerol as well as the leaves, grass and kitchen trimmings.

It is different for different locations.  Check with the county.   Where I live the county offers free classes on how to do it !  

Mike Briggs:

froggy:

Mike,

The higher the temp, the faster (and more complete) the rot. So a sunny spot helps.

Water is also important. Some 'drums' dont allow water in and out. But not so much water that the system goes anaerobic.

Air and turning is also important. Again, the system is aerobic digestion so keep the air moving.

Pee'ing into the pile will do wonders for the pile and your future garden. Some even add N compounds into the pile but I find it much more entertaining to use it as my #1 toilet.

I use a 'chickenwire' fence concept with complete air and rain access. Its harder to turn but easy overall to run. I have not found a 'for sale' system that beats an open pile. But again, Im in the stix and landspace is not an issue.

Hm, are there any potential pathogen problems from urinating on a compost pile that is going to be used to fertilize a garden? (I know there are as far as putting human fesces on a compost pile)

Urine is sterile. Just a point of interest, if you are working in your yard and you accidentally cut off your wifes finger with a hoe, pee'ing on it will be the best way to remove the dirt and sterile the area.

Tho there is an issue with active compounds like the recent medicine and hormone in the lakes news. I could imagine that most of these compounds would get 'eaten' by aerobic bugs in the compost and the soil. This (and other sterile) issues is why its important to let the compost complete. There are many items in the lit. about how 1/2 done compost water is full of 'nasties'. In theory, most of these 'compounds' cannot enter the plants anyhow.

And if your pee'ing heavy metals, where you pee is the last of your worries.

Mike Briggs:

The pile approach is also not appealing to us due to it attracting animals (we've had bears wander through our yard in the past. They are generally docile, but I'd prefer to not attract them if possible).

I can see how a container will keep out the 'coons and others smaller animals because of the physical obstruction but its the smell that is attracting animals. Not sure what a container is going to do about that. I will admit that coons and such get into the pile all the time here but I suppose that is apart of the digestion process too. And bear are few and far between. 

Mike Briggs:

how does this barrel composter look to you?

Im a country boy. These look like something city folk do.

Mike Briggs:

What seems appealing about it to me is that it (supposedly) time-separates the compost, so that you can more continually take from and add to it.

I dont see how this is would work. Each piece of biomass has a digestion 1/2 life. The end game is something called 'stable carbon'. If you mix then remove 1/10'th of the mass, you will be getting many stages of digestion. Again, blessed with space and biomass sources, I have 2-3 piles.

Or... screw composting all to gether and go Lazagna garden!  

I'm a "pile" composter only because I have too much yard waste (especially leaves). I add grass clipping from around the pool and whatever garbage and waste we manage to keep out of the 'evil' disposal (the bane of our kitchen as it make it too easy to toss food scraps and peelings down the sink). I tried to build a really nice insulated heat box like my dad uses, but we just have too much yard waste ... besides its easier to turn with the Bobcat.   It really doesn't matter in my opinion since it all eventually breaks down. 

One thing I leave out now-a-days is the dog waste. I think it was someone here that told me that because it contain food other than vegetation that its not good for the compost pile? 

> Since you know a lot about composting, how does this barrel composter look to you?

> http://www.realgoods.com/product/home-outdoor/outdoor/yard-garden/continuous-use+composter.do

It looks good - if it works. WIth most container-type composters, you really need two - one for new stuff going in, and one to mature the old stuff. It's the same with piles too. With piles, side-by-side bays made of stiff wire fencing are good. From that point of view, just one of the barrel composters you linked to should be OK, if it works.

I keep saying 'if it works', because I find composting barrels don't really work, and open composting also takes a very long time (i.e., a year or more).  Tumbleweed bins seem to have a good reputation, but again, you'd need two.

I also wazz on my compost - I like the way the little fruit flies buzz up to greet me and sit on my eyelids. I like to think of my compost heaps as 'middens' rather than compost since they rot so slowly. A pair of crows have started visiting my middens, but they don't give me any trouble.

 It's amazing the claims compost bin makers get away with. I have a Can O Worms which is supposed to be fly-proof. Hah! Every kind of fly known to man (and some not) knows how to get in there.

 

I have been making compost for decades using the three bin method. I have made the bins out of very simple material, bails of hay. One bin is used for finnished compost, and the other two are fo making the compost. One of the two bins is always open and free of compost. About once a week or every other week I take the compost from one bin and put it in the other bin to keep it turned and aerated. It works great.

Rich:

One thing I leave out now-a-days is the dog waste. I think it was someone here that told me that because it contain food other than vegetation that its not good for the compost pile? 

Rich you don't want to use manure from any animal that eats meat. Any poo from vegetarians is great material like cow, horse, sheep, zebra, etc... Every year I go to the county fairs in the fall and get a load of bedding material from the livestock show. Some charge a minimal fee like a buck or two per truck load, but where I go it is free. By spring it is ready to go in the mator garden, on the lawn, and flower beds.

 Dereck, does the compost get hot with your system? If it does, shouldn't that mean it would be relatively safe to put meat waste and the like in there as long as it's in the middle of the pile?

There are a lot of plans online for constructing 3-bin systems (I just looked), but hay bales sound good. 

Best animal poo... rabbit. A guy I know has over 100 rabbits and that's what goes in our three bin roofed compost bin. I've gotten the center of the pile up to 180 degrees in the summer.

And peeing on the hot mix is a nightly occurance.  

 

A point of interest here. I think it was Rod that said it but no 'meat' should go into the bin. I dont care if its cooked, raw or went thru you or your dog, no meat.

Ofc Rabbits dont eat meat so their poo should be great.

soypwrd:

Best animal poo... rabbit.

Not sure if ya'll know what a lagomorph is but rabbits are one. The first few paragraphs of the link discribes the difference between rabbit poo and 'other' poo.

 

 If we have meat or fish for dinner, I put any waste in the compost, whether the Can O Worms or the big bins depending on conditions at the time. If it's done carefully, I don't detect any harm. It certainly seems more sensible than putting it in a plastic bag, putting it on a pile of other garbage, and just leaving it in a metal cage until the collectors come several hours after sunup. Perhaps you could explain your strong viewpoint froggy?

 Incidentally, I'm thinking about keeping either chickens or rabbits, but rabbits seem awfully vulnerable to all sorts of horrid ailments.

Rod W:

  Perhaps you could explain your strong viewpoint froggy?  

1, will keep the critters away. Meat attracts them.

2, it stinks like you wouldnt believe.

3, but mostly, disease. Many diseases can hang out in the soil, unaffected by decomp. Anthrax is one, CWD is another. Granted that if your eating Anthrax or CWD, you got bigger problems than where to put your $hit but there are less drastic diseases that can continue, like Salmonella and others.

There is a reason why $hit and rot $tinks, its evolution tells us that its trouble, to stay away.

I remember back in bioschool a Prof telling us about the evolutionary pressures behind (pund intended) the colon. I remember 2 specifically;

1, if you just 'dribble constantly', pretators can easily track you. Thus you need a 'final stage storage compartment'.

2, if poop is a waste and you want it away from yourself (the group), the colon is the place where it tells the body, 'Im full and its time to walk 100 yds away from the group into the woods and... '

On a personal note; give the above,

Its rational to say 'I have to go' but is irrational to say 'I need to take a dump' (potty humor always slay's em)

girl Mark:

peeing on your compost is a really good idea- it's a concentrated source of nitrogen. there aren't a lot of pathogens in urine (compared to feces for instance) so I wouldn't worry about it unless you had some serious disease and weren't treating your compost pile correctly (ie not turning it at the right times). If you really worry about that issue, download a free copy of The Humanure Handbook and see what evidence that author gives for how compost kills human pathogens. 

I'll download the handbook. If I remember correctly what I've read before, isn't the main concern that the compost *may* not get hot enough to kill the pathogens?

The point of a container versus a pile is to keep rats out. However , the downside is turning the pile. I like piles when rats aren't a problem (like where I am right now out on a farm setting), and am resigned to using containers when they are more of a problem (like in the city) 

Rats aren't a problem here - but other critters are (bears, squirrels, racoons, squirrels, groundhogs, squirrels, chipmunks, squirrels, etc.).

I would think that a dark container would also help get/keep the compost hotter compared to a pile. 

Ok, here's what I'm thinking now - I can buy used plastic 55 gallon drums pretty cheap, and put an axle through the center for it to rotate around. I can connect that axle to a stepper motor to be powered by a PV panel, with a very low rotation rate - around 2-3 rotations per day. That would satisfy my "nerd quotient", and eliminate the maintenance need as far as manual rotating a barrel or turning a pile - and I would think the more continual rotation would provide a better result.

We would of course need at least two - one for adding stuff, and one that has been "filled" and is just composting what's already in there. Maybe I could put two on the same axle, to use the same motor.....

Mike Briggs:

  Ok, here's what I'm thinking .... "nerd quotient"   ...  adding stuff  ... motor.....

How much anyone wanna bet that Mike has a pocket protector and/or a lab coat on right now?

Anyhow, after all that work, seems like you might as well have a AD system or maybe a gasifier powering your house or your car. Why let the bugs get all that free energy when you could be driving this to the physics dept powered on last night linguini 

froggy:

Mike Briggs:

  Ok, here's what I'm thinking .... "nerd quotient"   ...  adding stuff  ... motor.....

How much anyone wanna bet that Mike has a pocket protector and/or a lab coat on right now?

Anyhow, after all that work, seems like you might as well have a AD system or maybe a gasifier powering your house or your car. Why let the bugs get all that free energy when you could be driving this to the physics dept powered on last night linguini 

Does anyone make bumper stickers that say "Powered by linguini"?

I think for now I may just build a simple barrel composter to be turned by hand, and then when I finish some other ongoing projects, I can stick a step motor on it.