Hello All,

 

Since we are passionate RVers, (we want to power our motorhome with B100 soon), and therefore visit rv.net forums quite frequently, we see biodiesel being one of the HOT topics lately.

But the main stream on that forum treats bio still like "engine poison".

One replier mentioned to be VERY cautious since bio does not follow any national standards so far. But I thought it does and so wouild like to answer to the contraire.

 

Can you help??

 

Thomas 

I commented on this very thing here. I suspect if you use this site's search function, there are probably other discussions that are more thorough.

If you read the links on the other thread, you'll find that the most of problems with Biodiesel have occurred in cold and/or moist climates - something to consider in your travels.

Thank you,

 

I will investigate. Sorry for not doing more research beforehand.

 

Thomas

Don't be sorry. It's great to see new people getting involved and asking good questions. My experiences with Biodiesel have all been good, though I make my own, so quality is internally regulated. Where do you travel? Have you seen much Bio for sale in your travels?

Well, I AM exited to finally take the plunge to greasy town. I've been interested in that topic for so long, but I obviously had some convincing to do within my own family.

I started my interest with WVO but thought that converting all vehicles could be a big task and so I informed myself more on Bio diesel.

I'm buying from a local brewer for now but DO want to brew my own eventually. What do you guys think about these home brewing kits from Florida bio diesel? I was thinking of ordering one of those 60 gallon reactors.

We travel cross country quite often with our rig,  ashamed to say though that my motorhome tank has yet to smell bio. On our next trip though I will fill 'er up, I promise. I have printed out a map already where I can find B100 throughout the nation. (My tank DOES hold 150 gal, so I can stretch it between stops).

I'm also heavily marketing the bio issue on the RVers forum, because I think that there is a lot of potential with all those guys and their big vehicles. They are usually NOT the crowd  that are easily going for future trends, though, if you know what I mean. ("Ther ain't no stinkin' grease goin' in my rig, there ain't).

But after I will have applied my BIODIESEL stickers, (which are due now anyday,), to the back of the motorhome and roar into one of those campgrounds, people WILL start asking questions. (Usually the first question I always hear when I mention bio is: How much money can you save???).

SO, I will unofficially become a bio diesel spokesperson to the RV world.

 

My next big task will be replacing my wife's Grand Cherokee with a Liberty diesel or a Touareg TDI,

 

Thomas

Good luck with your adventures in grease. Regarding processors, in general, I'd avoid models that employ a plastic tank as a reactor; the material your reactor is constructed of affects the product fuel quality and is a safety issue.

If you're mechanically inclined in the least, both B100 Supply and Utah Biodiesel Supply offer "Appleseed" processor kits which allow you to convert steel hot water heaters into  biodiesel reactors. This type of processor is used by many of the contributors to this and other similar sites which much success; they're notably cheaper than most other kits (no inflated markup). Search for "Appleseed" and ask one of the users for advice on this if you wish to know more.

In addition, the BioPro is the DeLorean of homebrew Biodiesel. It's automated and constructed of stainless. It's clearly revered in the community, though it carries the price tag to match the quality.  

Thanks,

What's your first name......Gladiator

It's hard to reply to ebztz,(he,he). Your suggestions were very valuable. Yeah, I think the DeLorean has to wait a while. What, if I would replace the plastic tanks with stainless.

I'm an artistic metal smith by trade, so Im sure I could come up with SOMEthing. check out our web: www.schwaigerdesign.com

 

BTW: Florida biodiesel talks about a dry wash product consisting of magnesium silicate, diatomaceus earth and magnesium aluminuhydrosilicate called "BIODRY"

          What do you think about that??

 

Thomas

 

Nice metalwork!

Regarding Magnesium Silicate, there is another product called Magnesol that is chemically similar; search for it and I'm sure you'll find an excess of information. In summary, the magnesium silicate is a dust like material that has proven to be very difficult to filter out of fuel. No one knows what the long term effects of having the small particles in the fuel system and engine are.

If you must dry wash, Amberlite might be your best option. I've been told it looks like coffee grounds and is easy to filter. Fryerpower is developing a special housing for it currently. Speculating, I'd say it's worth the month (or so) wait to pick up this product.
 

The effects of small particles in fuel systems is very well known. That is why fuel systems are going to smaller and much finer fuel filters. Outside of the ASTM D6751 spec, other biodiesel spec like EN14214 and the Australia biodiesel standard contain a max ppm level for sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. All these elements are known to increase ash level or what many may call particulate matter. And with the new emission standards driving engine manufacturers and truck OEM's to install Diesel Particulate Filters, controlling the amount of metal ions in the fuel becomes even more important. Of course thats if you don't destroy your fuel pump and injectors first by passing these particles thru them.

Hey Cat,

I was referring specifically to the Magnesol small particles (ie, <1 micron) specifically). Unless there have been some recent developments, their effects haven't been studied. IMO, it seems presumptuous to assign a particle that is coated with glycerin - as would be the case with Magnesol after dry-washing - the properties of generic particulate. If you have any specific reason or research indicating my statement is incorrect, please let me know so that I can update my library/knowledge base.
 

CAT Man

Just for your information the latest version of ASTM D6751 does include a specification for both Sodium & Potassium combined at a maximum of 5ppm and Calcium & Magnesium combined at a maximum of 5ppm 

Now this company has a homebrew system for Magnesol, I think I will go this way. Do you think i can joint the biopro system with their purification one?

 

 

CAT man:

The effects of small particles in fuel systems is very well known.

Ok, back to the submicron particles coated with glycerol. Note, I'm making the assumption that filtering to this level of contamination - I forget the claimed ppm count - is possible, something I've not been able to attain - nor have I read of any homebrewers - though this is supposed to be possible will industrial pressure plate filters.

There are obvious problems, like the individual particles collecting into large blobs of glycerin, and clogging the fuel system. These issues are fairly well documented.

Fuzznag brought up the ASTM D6751 standards. This would affect those trying to achieve specs, though not homebrewers. For those wishing to meet the spec, filtering is definitely critical. As is, this has nothing to do with effects on engines or fuel systems. I haven't read why they set this standard, but if someone can elaborate, please do.

Aside, I'm not sure what the injector nozzle tolerances are, but other engine component tolerances that I could find are notable greater than 1 micron. Wouldn't this eliminate wear due to friction? Back to your comment, Catman. Disappointingly, I've seen no follow ups to the original ISU Magnesol "study" discussing engine or fuel systems, and they make little mention in the original Biodiesel Magazine article. What little I have came from a publication from my library that states (on Pg 18 of 28), "the effect of ... free glycerin content on fuel lubricity is unknown." Since we're talking about glycerin coated particles, I still say the effects of submicron, glycerin-coated particles on engines is unknown (and minor on fuel systems, though I proved myself wrong here :-P)

I'm trying to understand this as best as possible, so if you have more up-to-date information on this, please pass it along.
 

NOTE: I started a new thread here that is specific to residual Magnesol contamination.