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Latest post 12-25-2007 08:42 PM by natescape. 13 replies.
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  • 12-22-2007 08:32 PM

    • natescape
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-14-2002
    • Between Providence and Cape Cod
    • Posts 4,811

    Food vs. Fuel

    It doesn't have to be one or the other when we get into second-generation biofuels (algae, switchgrass, jatropha, etc). But for now, this is something that needs to be discussed. Link here.

    Food and Fuel Compete for Land

    Published: December 18, 2007

    Shopping at a Whole Foods Market in suburban Chicago, Meredith Estes said food prices have jumped so much she has resorted to coupons. Charles T. Rodgers Jr., an Arkansas cattle rancher, said normal feed rations so expensive and scarce he is scrambling for alternatives. In Oregon, Jack Joyce, the owner of Rogue Ales, said the cost of barley malt has soared 88 percent this year.

    For years, cheap food and feed were taken for granted in the United States.

    But now the price of some foods is rising sharply, and from the corridors of Washington to the aisles of neighborhood supermarkets, a blame alert is under way.

    Among the favorite targets is ethanol, especially for food manufacturers and livestock farmers who seethe at government mandates for ethanol production. The ethanol boom, they contend, is raising corn prices, driving up the cost of producing dairy products and meat, and causing farmers to plant so much corn as to crowd out other crops.

    The results are working their way through the marketplace, in this view, with overall consumer grocery costs up roughly 5 percent in a year and feed costs up more than 20 percent.

    Now, with Congress poised to adopt a new mandate that would double the volume of ethanol made from corn, ethanol skeptics say a fateful moment has arrived, with the nation about to commit itself to decades of competition between food and fuel for the use of agricultural land.

    “This is like a runaway freight train,” said Scott Faber, a lobbyist for the Grocery Manufacturers Association, who complained that ethanol has the same “magical effect” on politicians as the tooth fairy and Santa Claus have on children. “It’s great news for corn farmers, but terrible news for consumers.”

    But ethanol critics are not getting much traction with their argument. Last week, the Senate voted 86 to 8 for a new energy bill containing expanded ethanol mandates, and the House is expected to follow suit this week.

    Experts with no stake in the argument say ethanol has indeed contributed to rising food costs, but that is only one among several factors. Higher fuel costs are driving up the expense of growing and transporting food. And strong economic growth abroad is increasing demand for agricultural commodities, allowing once-destitute people to augment their diets with meat and dairy.

    It is also a tough time, politically, to make a case against ethanol. With continuing turmoil in the Middle East, sky-high gas prices and presidential candidates stumping in Iowa, the heart of the Corn Belt, a new renewable fuel standard has plenty of supporters on Capitol Hill.

    “We did get whipped,” said Jay Truitt, vice president of government affairs for the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association. “We continue to be caught up in this fervor, almost spirituality, about ethanol. You can’t get anyone to consider that there is a consequence to these actions.”

    He added, “We think there will be a day when people ask, ‘Why in the world did we do this?’”

    The bill in Congress would increase the mandate for renewable fuels to a striking 36 billion gallons by 2022. That is far beyond a requirement on the books now for 7.5 billion gallons of ethanol by 2012.

    Much of the newly required ethanol could be made from agricultural wastes like corn stalks and straw, and its production would not compete directly with food production. But the proposed mandate, known as a renewable fuel standard, also calls for 15 billion gallons of ethanol made from grains, primarily corn.

    Ethanol advocates say they believe yield increases will supply much of the extra corn needed to meet the new mandate.

    Mark W. Leonard, who raises cattle and corn in western Iowa and owns a stake in several ethanol plants, said it was “absolutely essential” that the government increase the mandate for ethanol, and he urged Congress to push up the deadlines.

    “This is a national security issue more than anything else,” said Mr. Leonard, noting the nation’s dependence on imported oil. “We need to quit sending money to people who want to blow us up.”

    When the current standard was passed as part of a 2005 energy bill, it set off a construction binge of ethanol plants that continues, primarily in the Corn Belt but also in places like California, Texas and upstate New York. As new plants opened and the demand for ethanol increased, so did corn prices.

    Farmers have responded to the boom by planting more and more corn. In fact, the amount of corn planted this year, 94 million acres, was the most since World War II, and it produced a record crop of 13.2 billion bushels. But even with bumper crops, corn prices are expected to climb next year.

    Joe Victor, vice president for marketing for Allendale, an agricultural research firm in the Chicago suburbs, said Midwestern farmers would face a pleasant quandary in the spring in deciding what to plant because wheat and soybean prices are at or near record highs and corn prices remain bullish.

    “Oh geez, they’ve got money galore,” he said. “The Senate vote for the energy bill was a real confidence builder for the farmer to think, ‘They are not going to pull the rug out from underneath us.’”

    The price increases for corn have had a broad impact, both because farmers are planting more corn and less of other crops and because livestock producers are scrambling for feed substitutes. For instance, soybeans acreage planted this year was about 16 percent less than in 2006.

    Feed costs have increased 25 to 30 percent in the last year, according to David Fairfield, director of feed services at the National Grain and Feed Association. He attributed virtually all of the increase to the demands of the ethanol industry

    One consequence of the higher feed costs is rising competition for malt barley between livestock farmers, who want it for feed, and brewers, who need it for beer. Mr. Joyce, the Rogue Ales owner in Newport, Ore., said he has been forced to raise prices to pay for the additional costs of ingredients.

    Mr. Rodgers, the Rison, Ark., rancher, said he used to feed his cattle a mixture of corn gluten and soybean hulls. But he said he cannot get corn gluten anymore, and the cost of soybean hulls has risen to $150 a ton from about $105 a ton.

    “I’m all for us being energy independent,” he said, but added, “it’s got to be market driven.”

    The impact of ethanol on prices at the grocery store is less certain.

    Grocery prices that are measured by the Consumer Price Index increased 5.4 percent in the last year, with dairy prices up 14 percent; meats, poultry, fish and eggs, 5.4 percent; cereal and baked products, 5.2 percent; and fruits and vegetables, 4.5 percent.

    Those increases outpaced overall inflation of 4.3 percent. Government economists predict grocery prices will jump another 3 to 4 percent in 2008.

    In a study completed in May, researchers at Iowa State University concluded that retail food prices had already increased by $47 per person in the previous year or so as a result of higher corn prices. If corn prices near $4.50 a bushel next year, as many people expect, the research suggests that retail food prices for meat will increase about 7.5 percent and egg prices will go up 13.5 percent.

    But researchers for the Renewable Fuels Association dispute that math and contend that the link between corn prices and grocery prices is weak.

    As the debate continues, one thing is certain: American shoppers are increasingly frustrated over rising prices.

    “It’s the staples, the cheeses, the milks and produce,” said Ms. Estes, shopping at the Chicago-area Whole Foods. “It’s going up, and my grocery bill at the end, it’s like, ‘Are you kidding me?’”

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  • 12-22-2007 09:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    natescape:
    Feed costs have increased 25 to 30 percent in the last year, according to David Fairfield, director of feed services at the National Grain and Feed Association. He attributed virtually all of the increase to the demands of the ethanol industry

    If they dont grow corn but grow switchgrass instead on the same acre, why are people saying that solves the food vs fuel debate?

    I totally disagree that biofuel has caused or will cause a huge increase in food prices. Its quite likely the opposite. What is true is that energy prices have caused an increase in food prices which is a seperate issue from ag.

    Those that live by the sword, die by the sword. Id rather die of cholesterol from all the butter Im making and selling... froggy in Wisconsin
  • 12-22-2007 10:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    The tropics have far greater yield for biofuel crops than northern climates. I've done the numbers and I think growing any kind of biofuel in the North is a wasteful idea. In the  tropics, however, it is a different story.

     

     

    Message to Euro-Americans: eat local food, buy global biofuels

     

    http://biopact.com/2007/02/message-to-euro-americans-eat-local.html

     

    African trade fears carbon footprint backlash

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6383687.stm 

     

     

    Take this for example:

    Now ethanol (not biodiesel) from palms

     

    http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/1/9/51120/78648

     

    Palm trees produce absolutely HUGE amounts of sugar in their sap, and in places like Indonesia they grow in huge wild stands. There could be enough wild nipah palm in Borneo to supply enough ethanol to replace oil, for the entire world. It's just sitting there waiting to be tapped, and no rainforest will have to be cut down, no corn fields will have to be replaced. It grows in wetlands, thus protecting existing wetlands.

    The nipah palm yields more than 2x the sugar yield of sugar cane.

    If you convert the energy content of that per acre to the equivalent amount of biodiesel, you have up to 5000 gallons biodiesel equivalent energy in the sugar per acre.

    That is approaching very close to the theoretical yields from algae, and surpassing the current yields from algae, and it's available, right now. 

    So why aren't we importing more biofuels from developing countries? Stupidity, politics, greed.

     No, we can't grow nipah/coconut/sugar palms in our backyard, but most of southeast Asia can, and they'd have more than enough left over for us. 

    I'm convinced sugar is the answer, not algae. Of course that's just my opinion.

     

     

     

    "And Lord, we are especially thankful for nuclear power, the cleanest, safest energy source there is. Except for solar, which is just a pipe dream." Homer Simpson, 1990
  • 12-22-2007 10:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    Froggy, I am afraid to say you do not know what you are talking about. I have lots of family that are ranchers and farmers. Cattle business is very poor because of feed prices. All commodities have tripled in the last 4 years; all you have to do is look at the futures market.
    Dereck In Texas
  • 12-22-2007 10:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    "And Lord, we are especially thankful for nuclear power, the cleanest, safest energy source there is. Except for solar, which is just a pipe dream." Homer Simpson, 1990
  • 12-23-2007 08:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    dereckbc:
       Froggy, I am afraid to say you do not know what you are talking about.

    Well ofc this isnt true, havnt you learned anything yet Dereck?

    Barrel of oil in Nov of 1999 = 24.77

    Barrel of oil in Nov of 2007 = 94.63

    = 380% increase in cost of a barrel in the last 8 years.

    Bu of corn in Nov of 1999 = 2.25

    Bu of corn in Nov of 2007 = 4.50

    = 100% increase in cost of bu of corn in the last 8 years.

    And here is another comment that most of you city folk dont know...    As energy pricing has gone up, farmers have squeezed their bottom line by using less ferts, less passes (no till), less chem's, more information (geo position fertilizing) and the like.

    About 25-33% of the cost of op's to a farmer is energy costs. 25-33% of 380% falls right in line with the increase in food compared to value of energy.

    dereckbc:
      All commodities have tripled in the last 4 years; all you have to do is look at the futures market.
      If the world runs on oil, do you find it strange that as energy 3x over the past 8 years, that all commodities would also go up to a lesser extent?

    Run on bioenergy is not the reason food pricing is going up, its the run on energy that is doing it. Food or fuel is a strawman for the reasons I gave in this post and the one previous.

    Those that live by the sword, die by the sword. Id rather die of cholesterol from all the butter Im making and selling... froggy in Wisconsin
  • 12-23-2007 10:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    Froggy yes higher fuel cost is one factor driving up food cost from manufacturing and transportation cost, but high demand of ethanol is also a major factor, as corn and soybeans is part of just about every food product in one form or another. You are a cheese head and know that. Big Smile You and I both know commodities are not based on production cost. Farmers do not go to the market and tell the buyer how much they want for their goods; the market ( Chicago ) tells them how much they will pay.

    It is not all bad news, farmers are making greater profit margins than they ever had, the reason is very simple, demand from ethanol producers. In fact something very new and amazing is happening. The ethanol producers are bypassing traditional markets or middle men by buying directly from farmers. The farmers get a higher price than the grain mills will pay, and the ethanol producer gets corn for less than market prices. It is called Hedging.

    As for me, I am not too worried about it as I will make money from the ethanol surge. It is not that I believe in ethanol because ethanol stocks are not worth the paper they are printed on, but I do make money from companies that support the business like Deer, Monsanto, Andersons, Conagra, Potash, and ETF’s with an AG futures index. All are doing very nicely right now.

     

    Dereck In Texas
  • 12-23-2007 10:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    dereckbc:
    Farmers do not go to the market and tell the buyer how much they want for their goods; the market ( Chicago ) tells them how much they will pay.

    But they do. They either sell... or they dont sell their futures. If they sell, they are telling the market that they have either met their # or are scared. If they dont sell, this = greed and that typically drives pricing up.

    dereckbc:
      high demand of ethanol is also a major factor 

    Ethanol is only offering demand because oil is going up, not the other way around. With oil @ $25/bbl, ethanol is dead. Your sentence should read 'Oil pricing pressure is the major factor for the high demand of ethanol'.

    Those that live by the sword, die by the sword. Id rather die of cholesterol from all the butter Im making and selling... froggy in Wisconsin
  • 12-23-2007 11:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

     Don't forget about record or near record exports of corn. So much is being exported that it is being hauled by rail to the West coast to be ship overseas.

    Also, one must remember that there has been to great of an increase in the US money supply. That is why US corn hasn't gone up very much in several other countries.

    From 1999 to 2007 when measured against a hard currency, as of 12-21-07, corn has gone down. Corn would have to be at $6.41 a bushell to match the 1999 price.

    The other day Greenspan stated the obvious. That we are in the early stages of stagfaltion. For the forgetful, stagfaltion is the h... we pay for have the money supply mismanaged. 

    Martin

     

  • 12-23-2007 12:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

     Sugar beets give about 1.5 times more sugar per acre than sugar cane. And it is not as labor intensive. That is why India has been switching from sugar cane to sugar beets.

    The left over beet pulp has the same feed value as barley. For those who know nothing about food production, that means that cattle eating beet pulp need no grain or additional protein. For the numbers, an acre in ND: 863 gallons ethanol & 4000 lbs of beef. Double or triple that for the Southern US, depending on how far south.

    The food vs. fuel debate stems from those who either have an axe to grind or don't know anything about food production. The axe to grind maybe money, bored people who think that the lifestyle shown in the "Mad Max" movies would be fun, etc. I'm to old to enjoy a "Mad Max" lifestyle.

    Also, historicly when a resource needed to support a civalization is remote unpleasant events tend to occur. Very often, 2 civalizations try to control that remote area.

    Martin

     

       

  • 12-24-2007 01:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    perotter:
    The food vs. fuel debate stems from those who either have an axe to grind or don't know anything about food production. Martin

    Well I know a little bit about AG, but Sugar Beets are not a miracle crop either as it is restricted to latitudes of 30 to 60 degrees. It also requires fairly good fertile soil which means some other food crop has to be pushed off to grow it, and is a biannual cutting production in half so to speak. So with that in mind, it does compete with food crops be it Sugar Beets or Corn.

     

    Dereck In Texas
  • 12-24-2007 05:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

     It is a biannual only if you want to harvest the seeds. If you want the sugar, you dig the beet about 120(in the north) days after planting the seeds. In the tropics it is harvested 157-180 days after planting. So production is what I stated, not halved. Do a google search on " tropical sugar beets". They are grown in Tamil Nadu, which is well below the 30th latitude.

    Since when isn't beef food? 4000 lbs of beef per acre is hard to beat. 

    If soil will grow a tree,  it will grow food. That is why the food vs. fuel debate can only stem from what I stated. Otherwise there would be a food vs. paper debate or a food vs. building material debate.

    The international oil companies will stop at nothing to make an extra $ next qtr. 

    Martin 

     

     

  • 12-24-2007 05:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

    perotter:
      If soil will grow a tree,  it will grow food. That is why the food vs. fuel debate can only stem from what I stated. Otherwise there would be a food vs. paper debate or a food vs. building material debate.  

    Its not a food v fuel debate but rather a food v ecology (sustainable footprint) that is in real debate. There is no doubt that we can cut the rain/borial/etc forests down and grow all the food we would ever need, even for 100 Billion ppl. When we run out of land, there is the sea. Then there is technology that can do the job of plants to produce food from the atom up. Then there is....

    The reason its never a food v fuel debate is bacause ecology has no value in economics. We have not learned the lesson of the tragedy of the commons, better known as self aware carrying capacity.  

     

    Those that live by the sword, die by the sword. Id rather die of cholesterol from all the butter Im making and selling... froggy in Wisconsin
  • 12-25-2007 08:42 PM In reply to

    • natescape
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-14-2002
    • Between Providence and Cape Cod
    • Posts 4,811

    Re: Food vs. Fuel

     China's getting behind the effort to try to avoid food stocks for biodiesel. Link here.

    China to offer support policies for non-food biofuels

        BEIJING, Dec. 7 (Xinhua) -- China's Ministry of Finance (MOF) has drawn up policies to promote the production of non-food sources for biofuels, a senior MOF official told a Beijing energy conference.

        The ministry will use subsidies and other forms of financial support to reduce the risks of producing these sources, said Zeng Xiao'an, deputy director of the MOF's Department of Economic Development, at a synthetic fuel forum held in Beijing Thursday.

        "We have worked out a complete set of policies to support non-food biofuels, as they are clean energy sources with a limited negative impact on the environment," Zeng said.

        Flexible subsidies will be offered to biofuel producers who lose money on crops when crude oil prices are low, he said, and the government would encourage enterprises to reserve funds to offset such risks.

        Farmers will receive a 3,000-yuan (405 U.S. dollars) subsidy for each hectare of forest products for biofuels, such as ethanol and bio-diesel, and 2,700 yuan for each hectare of crops for biofuels, Zeng said.

        The ministry would also subsidize demonstration projects producing ethanol from cellulose, sweet sorghum and cassava or making bio-diesel from forest products, so as to make it easier to get bank loans for construction, according to Zeng.

        Projects that are up to industrial standards would receive rewards ranging from 20 percent to 40 percent of the total investment, he said.

        "Government subsidies are a small proportion of the total investment of a bio-diesel project; however, we are confident of the long-term prospects for bio-diesel production," said Liu Jianbo.

        Liu runs a company, Hunan Rivers Bioengineering Co. Ltd, that set up a bio-diesel plant with an annual capacity of 20,000 tons, one of several such small plants in China. There is no reliable figure for the nation's bio-diesel output, but there are believed to be fewer than 10 plants, all small-scale.

        Chinese officials have said that the country would increase bio-diesel output to 200,000 tons by 2010 and 2 million tons by 2020.

        In 2006, China's four ethanol projects produced about 1.3 million tons of fuel, which was blended with gasoline in some provinces, including Shandong.

        All four projects mainly produce corn-based ethanol. However, earlier this year, China banned the further use of grain for ethanol production, to ensure that grain was available for food.

        China has set a target of an annual production capacity of 2 million tons of ethanol by 2010 and 10 million tons by 2020.

        The energy-thirsty country has also sought to use its abundant coal reserves to produce synthetic fuel, with the goal of reducing reliance on imported petroleum. But support policies for such projects are still being debated, because there are concerns over the environmental impact of coal-based synfuels, Zeng said.

        The production of coal-derived fuels, such as methanol and dimethyl ether (DME), is usually accompanied by abundant carbon dioxide emissions, contrary to the country's efforts to cut emissions.

        "We are still doing research and will publish specific support policies for such projects as soon as possible," Zeng said.

     

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