BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

Can I please start another thread like USSE . That was soooo much fun. I have today sent an email to Sunx Energy (www.sunxenergy.com) as per the cut and pasted wording below. Is this another pump and dump rip off? Anybody else been approached?

If it is a rip off then I think they need to be exposed and this forum can do that. If they are genuine and come up with satisfactory answers to all my questions then they should be welcomed with open arms and praised as leaders in the algoil world.

 COPY Email to Sunx Energy 2.24pm 7 March 2008.

I have been provided with one of your brochures and have taken the time to read this and to take a look at your website.

I have the following questions :-

1) Assuming you are able to produce oils at the current maximum theoretical limit of 50 000 litres an acre a year, to supply one of your plants with a constant uninterrupted supply of algae oil, you will require 72 acres of land. How do you propose meeting the demands of 320 similar plants scattered across North America and the world??

2) Knocking out 300 000 litres of biodiesel a month will result in 30 000 litres of glycerine. Have you any plans in place to assist your customers to sell or otherwise dispose of this by product??

3) Your fancy brochure shows a figure of $500 for "miscellaneous" items - would this be for the costs of methanol and KoH ?? I would think that is very very low, wouldnt you?? If the cost off methanol and KoH are not included, shouldn't they be and what would they be??

4) Have you researched and are you therefore able to guide all customers, local, national and international, on how to seduce local coucils.boards ( or whatever you call the city fathers) to allow placement of one of your facilities including covering all legal and legislative issues around such mundane things as disposal of waste water among a heap of other matters??

5) Nowhere in your cost analysis do I see an item for cost of money. I should imagine that the majority of potential investors could well have the deposit but to fork out another $700 000 I would think, only a few could manage that. So you have to factor in the costs of a loan with interest and repayment amounts of probably no less than $4 500 a month, probably a lot more.

6) Your brochure states the cost of your processing plant is $750 000. Is this just the biodiesel processing plant?? It seems to be from what I can see. If this is the case then I am aware of fully automated plants of similar capacity that are readly available for $450 000. Why is your plant so expensive?? Am I able to buy one of these less expensive plants but still qualify for the benefits of being under the Sunx banner??

7) If I were interested enough to fork over my $50 000 deposit, when would I sell my first litre of biodiesel??

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I like it, Slippery. Guerrilla fact checking!

Sunexinvestor,

If I have offended anybody in any way whatsoever I unreservedly apologise.

Potential investors, if you have read the above posts and are thinking of not investing because of our lighthearted postings, I urge you to think again.

Re read the thread and carefully note the questions that have been raised and, for your own edification, ask those same questions of Sunx yourselves.

The fictitious answers above were posted to represent just that, fictitious answers from a fictitious company director and do not represent the truth as I know it.

Sunxinvestor, I would guess from your tone that you are an educated man and I would presume that you asked these same questions before you invested in this company. Would you be willing to tell us what the companies response was.

 I thought it was pretty clear that it was a spoof, but thanks for clarifying, Slippery.

 EDIT BY FROGGY: 

Fine, I will delete my comments. Im not looking for any trouble and hope that SUNX is the next best thing. Im pro algae and could be your very best friend.

But Mr Investor, you have to understand how many times companies like the one you are obviously representing, SUNX come on here with the exact same story. It gets to the point where satire becomes easy.  Fine... if you think you have a product, do share it with the group. Im all ears and I will be glad to share with everyone the analysis that Im willing to do for SUNX. Infact, over the next few days as time willing, I will do just that.

And Im very sorry that you do not like satire. The good part about satire is that its easily quelled by the truth. This is what I mean by 'bring it on'.

 I will be glad to delete any post in this thread if/when the person who made the post requests it.

Nate,

You may delete my post of 9th March but my questions stand.

Sunxinvestor, are you saying you did not ask these questions?

IIRC there was a bit of a row about this lot over at InfoPop as well. Seems IIRC that there was quite a bit of beligerence then as well. IMO,if this is the kind of relationship one is to have BEFORE investment with an "unofficial" representative of any corporate entity then it deserves serious analysis from every possible angle. No legitimate question should be left unanswered, or put off awaiting a precondition of retractions. But then, like anatomical parts, I have my opinion, and from what I have seen it is my opinion that I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Speaking about my opinions naturally ...

Legal Eagle:

 I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

I wouldnt even touch this with Legal Eagle's 10 ft pole.

Thank you for your responses SI.

I was approached directly with an offer to invest in a business that "guaranteed" me a $33 000 a month income based on using algae for feedstock. There was no disclosure about when that income would become available but the inuendo was that if I paid my $50 000 deposit I would get my plant and 300 000 litres a month of biodiesl would start to flow.

As I am living in Brisbane, Australia, it is a little hard to pick up the phone and call Sunx. I did send them an email 2 weeks ago and have not received a response.And I find that strange because one of their platforms is that they want to be an international company and I showed interest.

I guess I am a little lucky in that I am familiar with how biodiesel is made and also with the technology behind growing algae. I used that experience to ask some pertinent questions that anybody wanting to invest in this business should have had the answers for right up front.

We are all aware that biodiesel plants are closing down because the cost of feedstock is high and is scarce. We also know that algae oil is going to take a bit longer to be a viable feedstock (if at all). This has been admitted by Sunx. I know this because this is exactly where I am at right at this minute. I have the same dream as Sunx and I wish them the very best with their research. Difference is I know I will not con money out of people on a fairy tail story. When I have proof of concept and can guarantee my product I will go to market.

 So I have to ask you, as an educated man, why would you hand over $50 000 to a company that has no product, has no feed stock, is only now doing research to maybe in a years time have algoil feed stock - and have done that to 330 other "investors". Thats over $16 000 000 of invested funds that are earning Sunx huge interest income with no return to the investor.

My advice for what it is worth, ask for your money back and wait until they have a product with guaranteed feedstock supply

And then there is the question about the cost of their plant. Did you personally do a search around to see if the processing plant they are offering is (a) the best there is or (b) was it competitively priced.

Evidently you did not and I would think that as an interested party you may like to now make that inquiry yourself. Ask them why it is that an alternative plant is available at a cost of        $450 000, compared to theirs at $750 000.

I look forward to hearing what answer you obtained.

Sunxinvestor:

Speaking to them recently, they have far more than enough demand - and simply put - the ones who choose to be skeptical instead of flying out there to find fact from fiction, will be left out and forgotten.

So what are you doing here huffing and puffing if this 'forum' doesnt matter? We are doing you a favor by keeping the price of your POS stock down, you should be thankful.

Biod plants left and right are being stopped in process yet SUNX is going to build 100's of them all over the country? Comon. Your answer to this issue is, I quote, '

1. Feedstock procurement - SunX has been addressing feedstock issues in order to stay immune from the commodities market and is working with their sources - however will not disclose any further information to me or anyone else due to the sensitivity of the deals involved. High demand for oil where loose lips sinks ships. As you know - algae use is still a few years off. Technology will catch up with speculation, as they are also performing research in their lab etc - which is also highly sensitive information that i am not priveledged to.

what a load of BS. There is no answer to the question here other than 'we got a secret and we arnt going to tell you but you need to believe us'. This statement is as laughable as your laughable website and laughable business idea.

Sunxinvestor:

You are buying a business where you do nothing but run the plant, and collect your check.

   Uh huh. So you are saying... buy our product for an inflated price and hope we can make the economics work without any of your help. When they dont because of obvious market trends, your stuck with our junk machine and the same issue that largerscale biod plants have, which is feedstock is too valuable to make $ off energy. Great business plan.

Sunxinvestor:

I will after this point become scarce and put my time and energy into more productive avenues. Thanks for the QnA session,  Its been fun :) 

   Why do I doubt this?

Im sorry I got rid of my mockery post.

Qualifications for a SUNX investor are as follows.

1)Needs to have a large wad of cash in the bank.

2)Needs to know nothing about BioD feedstock and the current famine we have with WVO.

3)Last the ability to not blink an eye when all that money they have invested gets funneled into some off shore account owned by a camel jockey!

So who is the CEO of this company Lou Pearlman?

 This guy and his nonsense "investment" is a joke. If you have 50 grand to piss away I will be glad to give you my account number and take it iff your hands for you!

"So now that YOU folks have restated your opinions that you've formed without a phone call to the source, especially legal eagle's anatomically sourced opinion - Thanks for your input, you're free to go."

A- I'll go when I am good and ready, but thanks for the invitation anyway.

B-You came to this forum "not representing" the company you are avidly promoting and I obviously hit a sore point for it is only the hit dog that howls, to be so expressly singled out  I suppose should be considered an honour if it wasn't so belligerent.

Just because you bought into a company you cannot say anything about, and won't discuss specifics as per some "disclosure agreement", doesn't mean that everyone is that gullible. Hasn't the thought crossed your mind that all this secrecy is exactly what is wanted, to operate in the shadows, while stockpiling investment capital ? You don't find anything a tad bit odd about that ? Did you see an actual working model that was not only inthe virtual world of a plant doing what is claimed or is this all still theoretical and "in development" ?

Of course you failed to direct which anatomical region my opinion is sourced from, so I'll help out, it is called the brain. You also obviously missed the wide angled sarcasm in my last post. So just in case there is any other misunderstandings, I consider all of the aforementioned simply my opinion to be taken or left at will, and you are welcomed to disregard anyting I have ever said 'cause I really don't care what you think of me one way or the other.

Let me use an example of how it is supposed to work; first there is research and development to see if the idea is viable and repeatable on the small scale.Usually this is done by the inventor at his/her expense (as the one who risks to gain the most from it). Once a true and bona fide method is developped, is known to be viable and functional, then one COULD go the route of investment capital, however the best way to accomplish that is to open up a business based upon the research and development that you have done to show a working model to potential investors, and not a table top model folowed by long speeches about the "potential" for profit. Almost any product has "potential" for profit if you look long and hard enough for buyers. A working model is one that does what you claim will acomplish for you once your investment is placed. Is there such a creature in open operation right now ? Or is that also too secret to discuss ? Here is something, purely my opinion of course, that isn't a secret; this thing smells of scam big time. Does the administrative structure resemble an Egyptian landmark ? Just asking legitimate questions here, seeing as so much is secretive and not permitted to be disclosed pertaining to how this thing works.

I make soap. I make it from the raw biodiesel glycerine layer. I R & D'd methods via trial and error  and then set out to use my product for 3 years before even thinking of turning it lose on the public. I use the product myself, and have for those 3 years. I have a working model.I have proof that it works.I can bring a potential investor to see what I do and how it is done. I can and do answer volumes of questions about it.There are no secrets.Could I go into venture capital investment with soap making from the glycerine layer ? Beyond the shadow of a doubt. How difficult would it be to get feedstock for my product ? Millions of galons yearly are looking for somewhere to go, and the projection for future availability is only getting brighter not dimmer, and still no secrecy, this is all openly available information. Can anyone go ahead and do what I've just described and leave me out of the loop ? Absolutely, but you see I really don't care, because what I set out to do was help those who had a disposal problem to adress it, not seek out a method of capitalising on hopes and financial hardships with clouded and/or vailed promises, while divulging only enough to keep the fish on the hook, so-to-speak. I sell do-it-yourself books that empower people to make their own product that will work every bit as well as what I make here. Of course mine is very low risk, all of $5, but it has done very very well. It is honest, straight forward and delivers exactly what it claims to. I offer 100% support and I answer each and every one of the emails I receive with as much detail as I can at the time. I can see where our methods differ greatly ...

Froggy said :- Im sorry I got rid of my mockery post.

Agreed. Maybe we should bring back Mr S T Inx.

 Sun Investor, you have asnwered the questions in the way I would anticipate a blinkered, one eyed, money hungry ignorant investor would. And I am not being rude - by ignorant I mean you have not educated yourself about all aspects of this "business".  And this statement can and does include your varifiable and interested investors mentioned above.

You were sweet talked into believing that in an era where biodiesel feedstock is so expensive or just not available, this company will guarantee up to 330 (their web site) investors a supply of oil that would produce 300 000 litres a month. - I hear bells, alarms and whistles warning me to stand clear.

Here is another question that you may need to take some serious thought over. Lets assume the company is able to secure a supply of oil from overseas sources. It is going to be almost a certainty that that oil will be palm oil. Do yourself a favour and ask them if it is palm oil and then do a search of how forests are being destroyed to plant palm trees.

Nobody in their right mind will support a company buying palm oil from a country that does not give a stuff for it's rain forests and environment - so be aware. If you end up selling Bd made from palm oil you stand the chance of being picketed by environmental groups.

Froggy, do you guys have a watchdog organisation that can be alerted to probable scams and have them investigated? We do here in Australia and they have a web site where they list all suspicious activity so investors can be warned to act with caution.

SI - at the end of the day caveat emptor prevails and I hope you have not lost your kids inheritance. Best of luck.

 

I am about to reserve the ticket to visit Sunx head quarter.  But I throw one question to Ken Johnston.  In our conversation, Ken gave in impression that Sunx has established customers in California and all over USA.  To distribute 300,000 litters minimum permonth per plant, you must have a regular and definite customers.  Here is his answer:
"We will be in the process of bidding on two national diesel users, one being the US military. Our business model is set up for regional sales and national sales and will be able to sell every drop we produce."  (3/19/2008)  Highlight the word "will", "bidding", and "military".   The implication is:- Until now they only have two prospective customer, one of them is US military; - We "will" not We "are" .... they dont do anything yet, just "will" - It is a "bidding", no guaranty they will win

Just becarefull!

Well done Hangchua. It is a simple question that reveals a whole heap of information.

 How dare they give a guarantee for something that is not definite yet.  Just "will", and it's will be a "bidding".

So, no working model eh ? Ifs and maybes and wills in the future but nothing that is actually working today. A proper business venture would have letters of promise from these prospective buyers. This practice is common for those wishing to get bank loans ect. for a commercial venture. From the information gathered so far all there is is someone wanting investors to pony up some cash and then "perhaps" down the road it will pay off. Las Vegas was built on that principle. What is it that JT Barnum said was born every minute ?

Previous to this comment, i deleted all posts and helpful information i had written to assist a new prospective investor in locating an informed and experienced opinion about the SunX Energy opportunity because as i originally went searching for information myself prior to becoming an investor, there was nothing to be found but misinformation and heresay, and that is still the majority rule.

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I can show you several million people who believe there is an invisible man in the sky that created our very existance and everything in it in 7 days. I can also show you several million people who think every single one of those people are crazy. Regardless of what decision they made, They chose by themselves with the information they were given, - right or wrong, no man can fault them for that.

"Follow not the blind men, who think their vision is clearer than yours."

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After all this effort in order to be fair and just in putting proper information out to the public that is otherwise unavailable to the public, where negativity is in its place and feeding off each other's ignorance, none of that matters anymore - it has become a moot point. 

No answers or conclusions can or will be found here. Its all just bickering and bullshit with misinformed fools throwing about their own half assed conclusions such as not having a working plant, which they do, or only having "two potential customers" ( Huangchang, You're a moron. Good job for hearing only what you wanted to hear - work on your English comprehension.)

I will no longer publicly offer my positive opinion, as others without first hand experience will only push harder to be right in an attempt to prove me wrong.

So what i will offer, is the only neutral advice you need to hear. After all, if you can afford to participate in an opportunity such as what SunX is offering, i doubt you got that far financially by listening to what everyone else tells you to do, especially with your money. If i listened to that, i would have never become wealthy either.

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Serious investors will know to ignore whats written on the internet as fools are far more plentiful than wise men.

STEP ONE:
Call and ask the questions you like directly to SunX - 866 - 516 - 6101.

STEP TWO:
After that you have two choices:

If you think your questions were answered to your liking - hop on a plane and see for yourself.

If not, you can find something else to invest in.

STEP THREE
If what you find when you tour in person is true - Go for it and enjoy your new business.

If you think its not - you can find something else to invest in.

STEP FOUR:

Eitherway, At that point, congratulations on being a independent thinker and a leader.

Best of success to you in either decision you happen to make!