"( Huangchang, You're a moron. Good job for hearing only what you wanted to hear - work on your English comprehension.) "

Speaking of morons ... how's your Chinese ? We have this thing within the homebased biodiesel community that is called mutual respect for a common goal and hobby. Too bad some people missed out of their portion.

And we still don't have a real world working model to gauge, just rhetoric and promotional salesmanship from someone who claims to not represent the company.

Has anyone anywhere actually seen a single litre produced from this company or are we to assume that given how great the opportunity is that no actual physical evidence is required, and we'd be follish to miss out on giving them money to further their investment porfolio ? I, for one, am far from convinced, and after seeing the quality of responses received from a non representative investor (<-assuming a fact not in evidence) I am not altogerther certain I want to be.

SI,

Why would you call anybody a moron when he is just pointing out an obvious question that needed to be asked and for which, as far as the asker was concerned, was not answered satisfactorily.

If you failed to ask that question and now feel obliged to defend your investment then I really think the cap is on your head. If it fits, wear it.

This guy called the company, Asked the question, and was told they were looking at national buyers, however chose to completely ignore the part about having more than enough local and regional customers, and then went to the various discussions and repeatedly post his misinformation in an attempt to smear the company. Thats my problem.

Any investor that has the money to put down will either get involved or weed themselves out either by their own intelligence, or by their own ignorance by asking the right questions and making the right decisions - eitherway, if they get involved or not - they made the decision that is completely appropriate and perfectly right for themselves, without anyone here's efforts - positive or negative.

 Anyways - really - im done having a discussion on these boards. It was entertaining for a short while, now its just annoying.

Houng,

Would you like to ask SUNX where they are going to source their feed stock from.

Mr Sunxinvestor does not know or because he has not asked the question, because he is afraid it may be Palm Oil .

That would be 300 000 litres a month x the 100 or so current investors and up to 330 investors as per the company web site. I wonder where they are going to source all that oil.

 I stumbled upon this thread (strangely it's the first link listed when doing a google search for sunx energy) and thought I'd offer my opinion as a former investor up until the first quarter of this year.  Overall, I think Sunx has good intentions at heart and are not out to swindle anyone intentionally, the problem in my opinion are the 2 founders and CEO running the whole operation suffers from a serious lack of business experience and acumen.  Granted, they did hire on a third person that seems to know what he is doing at least based on paper and past experience but in my opinion, the damage was already done.  The two biggest problems being a serious lack of communication and being very vague and avoidant of various questions to the point of being flat out deceptive and dishonest.  I would like to go into details and examples but Sunx has a very strong reputation of being litigious and while I don't think they can afford to instigate any lawsuits, I don't even want the potential dealing with sunx threats.  But I don't want any potential investors going in without knowing what I wish I now know about the company, so feel free to send me a private message and I will try to help you out as much as possible.  

 As for "sunxinvestor" I'm pretty sure it is the same guy on Sunx's private forum that basically verbally abuses anyone that say anything remotely negative about sunx or even raises any doubts or concerns.  It got to the point that I seriously thought that this guy worked for Sunx and there are a couple of other guys on the sunx forum that fit my definition of blind and ignorant to the point of being comical and almost unbelievable.  It made me wonder exactly how much Kool Aid they drank on their initial Sunx visit.  

One of the problems with investing is that there is never the 'other side'. Here is what I mean;

SUNX has these presentations and PR and pay people to talk up the stock. But who has the interest and the $ for the other side of the sales pitch saying this Co sux and to run away... The answer is that the other side does not have the force behind a well paid shill and the ma and pa investors is left wondering. Ma and pa can go hire someone but ofc that would limit their returns and ability to multi invest or as some call, diversify.

This is why Nate, BDN and the like are so important. In marketing terms, forums like these give; the innovators, the early adoptors and the majority a place to talk and compare notes. Its a new day for the ma and pa investors, as it should be. Thanks Nate. Thanks Kinvestments. Thanks nyaa304.

Thank you for the informative post Kinvestments.  I have not visited the Sunx headquarters.   I do have some intimate knowledge of their operation and processes.  I am neither a shill for Sunx nor an employee.  I have business dealings with one of their plant owners, but by no means am I a Sunx expert.  I will also not engage in any disruptive/unproductive content here as I run several businesses and have very little time for the pandering I read on this and other biodiesel blogs.  I think the treatment Sunxinvestor received here is pathetic.  I do not know Sunxinvestor and would have chosen to handle things differently, but certainly can understand the level of frustration after reading through the postings. 

I do want to respond to some of what you wrote Kinvestments.  It is my understanding that the original Sunx plan revolved around the bulk purchasing of soy as feedstock.  The plan went south when the price of soy doubled in 2007.  The Sunx buisness model failed to account for such an increase.  Sunx decided to put a hold on moving forward until a reasonable solution was apparent.  This showed good common sense and judgment on Sunx' part IMO.  Some investors were understandably put off and dissapointed by this.  Some were undercapitalized and couldn't afford to wait.  A small vocal group of these investors began to taunt Sunx claiming Sunx lied, primarily about the purchase of soy futures as a way to offset the price increase.  Sunx denied ever promising to buy soy futures contracts.  In fact, what Sunx had explained to their investors was they intended to deal with future price increases by negoitating favorable bulk purchasing agreements.  However, the meteoric rise in commodities rendered that plan moot.

The Sunx plan all along was to convert to algae oil.  It is expected with reasonable scholarship that processes are being developed to convert unlimited quantities of algae to oil within a 5 year period of time.  Sunx is a part of that ongoing research and I am told that they have already extracted large sums of algae oil and converted it to biodiesel.  I cannot prove that assertion. 

The Sunx distillers grain plan is fairly recent.  I am not aware that VeraSun plans on producing biodiesel but rather they plan on producing corn oil from their ethanol by-product and then sell it on the open market.  The VeraSun website confirms this.   The links you provide do not suggest or assert that VeraSun plans on producing biodiesel.  They state that VeraSun plans on extracting corn oil from dried distillers grain for "use in biodiesel production".  This corn oil will be sold to biodiesel producers as I have stated above.  It stands to reason that Sunx is negotiating to purchase the oil. 

The US BioEnergy and VeraSun merger was completed on March 31, 2008.  This merger makes VeraSun one of the top ethanol producers in the country.  They do not produce biodiesel as far as I can tell.  

That's it for now. 

 Be very careful is all I have to say to any potential investors.  I was a former investor and got out and it was not due to the fact that I was undercapitalized but the fact that certain new information came out when they dropped the bomb that they were putting a hold on the construction.  New information such as that they have secured only a 2-3% market discount on feedstock, information that they did not disclose at any point in the intial meeting or meetings prior to the bad news.  When constantly asked by numerous investors how they have "secured 5 years worth of feedstock" they answer was always that it was taken care of and that they had commodities traders working for them - this was straight out of Chris McKenzie's mouth.  There is a huge difference between "securing 5 years worth of feedstock" vs. "securing a 2-3% discount on feedstock for 5 years".  

Another possible red flag: http://www.strangfordlough.com/microbrewery.pdf   

now I'm not a hundred percent sure its the same guys but the business model/concept and style of business is exactly the same.  The sales rep for Strangford Lough is also called Chris McKenzie, and they are also located right next door to sunx.  Which raises the question of how does Sunx plan to both open 100 biodiesel plants across the US and also open 100 microbreweries at the same time.  Last I heard there were only 6 people on staff at Sunx including the receptionist and the office manager.   

They have been advertising their Total Fraud  on Craigslist.  I am surprised a State Atty. General hasn't locked them up yet.

Did anyone ever get answers to these quite pertinent questions?

natescape:

Did anyone ever get answers to these quite pertinent questions?

Hi all,

Thank you all for the information posted here thus far. It's been very informative.  I just received these responses (7/16/08) from Sunx regarding the following questions.  I'd like to know what you all think regarding these responses as I have my own thoughts on them.  Thanks!

Concerning #2, I thought they were planning on using Palm Oil.  Can someone verify if it is Palm Oil or Vegatable Oil?

Also,  are they guranteeing $33,000/month (300,000 liters) in biodiesel purchases per plant?  Or is it 1,000,000 liters?  Which I believe is the plant capacity at 100%.  Thanks

These are updates from the most recent questions I asked:

How is it determined if each plant will be able to sell 300,000 or 1,000,000 liters per month?  I assume ever plant would want to produce the maximum.  1,000,000 liters a month per plant would have SUNX responsible for $22,000,000 per month total.  Does SUNX already have contracts that can gurantee that amount per month.

Be careful, as a former investor they pretty much played the same tune.  As for everything in writing especially the contracts securing 5 years worth of feedstock and make sure they have secured the complete amount of feedstock and not secured a price discount from market which was the case in the past.  From what I see it just seems like a whole bunch of words and no actual evidence.  Everything is pretty much answered the same way of come visit us in Vancouver fully knowing that a very few will.  Also ask them about the irish brewery Strangford Lough that they are trying to set up.  How do they have the time to do both?  And most potential investors dont know this but a majority of the 750 in my opinion is going towards funding the everyday operations of sunx.  They don't paint that picture cause when I invested the total investment cost was 500k not 750k and I was told by there business developer that the 500k was going towards the construction and logistics of building our plant.  Not true, after having been told they were putting a hold on building our plants due to sky rocketing feedstock prices after having waited 10 months, it turns out part of our deposit was being used to fund the everyday operations including paying for Jim and Wayne's salary.  And I'm actually pretty curious to see that financial statement cause when I was an investor, we asked for it non stop for about 5 months and it was always the same tune of we are working on it and it will be shortly ready.  All I can say is ask to see everything in writing.  And if you think about it logically - the numbers just don't add up.

As a "former" investor. Was your money returned?

Yes my money was returned.  In all fairness, I truly believe that they are not running a scam and are legitimately trying to set up something viable, the problem I have though is that it seems that the two founders lack some serious business acumen, frivously threatening lawsuits, pitching the business like an informercial and finally not really fully disclosing what is really going on.  They don't lie about it but they just give you very vague anwers or they just don't mention it.  Like I mentioned before, ask to see everything in writing especially the securing of the feedstock and the sales contracts plus the financial statements.  And what you also got to ask yourself is that there are some serious big players in this industry with billions of dollars invested and these big players are having problems with securing enough feedstock at the current prices to the point they are not operating at full capacity and even times operating at a negative, so what does a former hockey player w/ no prior business experience and another person who is predominately known for writing a few marginal books on how to make money have over these huge big players that they are able to get around the feedstock issue? they may mention technology but as you know, if its worth anything, the big boys would already be on it.