Has anyone actually produced BD from algal oil? Are the procedures pretty much the same, any variance?

Prodiesel,

There are some companies who say they have produced biodiesel from algae. Only one I know of, Aquatec in New Zealand, advertised they had used it (as B5) in an engine. Marc at Ecogenics says he produced a few gallons as  test a while back.

Take with a pinch of salt, any company that says it is, or is capable of, producing algae biodiesel by the ton.

And therein lies the reason for all the scams and high interest in this fuel for the future. Scammers are going for the gullible mom and pops whilst the honest companies struggle to achieve production at economical levels.

Google, 0.33 seconds.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/01/driving-around.html

Thats my delima, seperating the hype from facts.  My main question is it viable for the individual to produce algae based fuel, and have any individuals undertaken the task, sort of like homebrew BD.

we have repeatedly stated in more than a few posts that we have made a "paltry " 175 millitres of biodiesel and that at great hazard to my health...  on the otherhand we have grown  and sold many many gallons of high lipid algae to other researchers... but we have always stated that making biodiesel out of algae still required improved  SAFEoil extraction technology and that technical problem was what was holding this technology back.

marc

Slippery, efectivamente el mundo está lleno de estafadores, especuladores y maestros del hambre.

¿Por qué nuestro proyecto puede resultar si otros han fallado?

A fin de mes nos reuniremos biólogos e ingenieros, junto a inversionistas interesados en el proyecto en la ciudad de Santa Fé, Argentina. Cada inversor llevará sus equipos técnicos en una jornada de dos días, en la que se formalizarán dos sociedades anónimas y un fideicomiso.

Si usted tiene interés en participar de este notable encuentro binacional, estaremos encantados de saber sus requerimientos particulares, con el fin de analizar si corresponde una invitación.

Saludos cordiales

Alvaro Illanes

Director general
www.prodiesel.com.ar

Nota: Considere que el usuario Prodiesel1 no tiene relación alguna con nuestra empresa.

estoy de acuerdo que hay muchos estafadores que piensan hacer dinerales con esta technologiay es muy lamentable lo que ocurre en este caso. el problema es que el gobierno regala dinero sin investigar si la technologia que proponen estos tipos tienen merito ,solamente buscan si esta gente tien buen credito  o buenas conexiones politicas.

En nuestros paises latino americanos existe lo mismo, la "Mordida" y teniendo conexiones cuentan mas que el valor  tecnico o la capacidad de los que buscan dineros federales. En los trienta anos en que estoy en el negocio de combustibles y energia alternativa, nunca he visto tantas movidas chuecas.

 Nosotros  hemos cumplido lo que hemos hecho por medio de nuestro propio dinero y esfuerzos Y si uno ve lo que hemos hecho,se puede ver que  hemos contribuido positiva mente, no solamente en la evolucion de la tecnologia, pero  en la arena de investigaciones y  la educacion y entrenamiento de una gran cantidad de gente de todas partes del mundo..

Hace poco tiempo que entrenamos estudiantes post graduados de cinco universidades mexicanas en un programa  desarollado por medio de la universidad de Georgia y el gobierno norte americano. tenemos mucho interes en el desarollamiento de estas tecnicas en latino america. tenemos raises profundos en Mexico adonde yo naci. estamos desarollando varios proyectos en Mexico Y  Brazil, nos interesa hacer mas en los paises sud-americanos. nuestra especialidad es el crecimiento de la alga y productos adicionales que son complementarios ala produccion de alga, pescados, fertilizantes ,y etanol  biodiesel y gases.

.acabamos de  cumplir un proyecto en el estado de Georgia que se dedica a la produccion de alga, tilapia, fertilizantes organicos, gases y en el futuro etanol y biodiesel.  dentro de poco tiempo estaremos metidos en un proyecto en Brazil y varios en el norte de mexico.

 De chico, pase unos meses en buenos aires estudiando en la primaria me recuerdo muy bien en los tiempos llenos de placer que pase durante mi estancia el la argentina. si les puedemos servir  en qualquier manera, pongase en contacto con nosotros.

Marco Cardoso

CEO ecogenics

Sorry Bub, don't speak spanish.

Cheers

Álvaro, me gustaría saber cuales son esas algas que son "las dos mejores del mundo", porque es un secreto que sólo "Prodiesel" sabe.

¿Cómo estás tan seguro de que son las mejores? ¿Qué productividad obtienes en g/m^2/día? ¿Utilizas iluminación artificial? ¿Y CO2 embotellado?

Gracias

Álvaro, I would want to know which algae species are "the two best of the world", because it is a secrect what only "Prodiesel" knows.

How do you know it so surely? How much is your productivity in g/m^2/day? Do you use artificial lighting? And CO2?

Thanks

prodiesel1:

Has anyone actually produced BD from algal oil? Are the procedures pretty much the same, any variance?

Hugh

There are no insurmountable challenges other than SAFE equipment requirements that MUST BE MET.In a production scenario ,hazmat and osha requirements as well a liability insurance costs will have to be reckoned with as well a local code and permiting restrictions. a lot of this can be eliminated with  proper  process design considerations or by bypassing the transesterification process entirely .

marc

I truly hope this post isnt misconstrued as a slam against algae. I really hope that the methods are developed to grow and extract the oil, it looks like an amazing opportunity if someone can come up with how to get the oil safely.

My question is, if its so bleedin hard to do at this point in time, why not use other methods of growing oils? say chinese tallow, or jatropha (you all know by now this is my favorite), and other methods.

I understand the many hands make light work of any project. and i think we actually do need more and more people doing this, waiting on that someone thats going to find out that if you sink the oil into a container full of bat brains, then the X does the Y and the Z is automatically DD'd after 2 weeks, strain off the C and viola! you have usable oil.

what im trying to get to is this. for those of us interested in algae, without a degree in chemistry, or a degree in anything else, (and i dont mean to cast dispersions), but why are all of the newbies getting suckered into a $50,000 setup (or less) to make algae when no one has obtained more than say a liter of oil from it? why arent they investing or starting off with wind, solar, jatropha, WVO or something they can actually do.

for some reason, I see this picture of a few hundred thousand folk out there with a few hundred million tons of algae and not a clue of what to do with it next.

I in no way mean to discourage anyone from researching algae, doesnt anyone think that there are other methods that are better suited for NOW? processes that actually work?

5 years from now we may be able to do it on a grand scale, but today? I wish there was a way, safe, clean, easy and profitable. ok maybe not easy, but the other 3 are a must.

dont ride me for bringing this up. maybe it will even provide the drive for someone to fix the issues with algae. im just wondering, if BP can sink however much they did, say on the order of 10 million, into algae, and got 175ml. they'd move on to something else.

all of you doing algae now are providing invaluable data and research now though, which strains, methods, feeding, harvesting. all up to the point of getting the oil out.

we need a think tank on that process alone. a BIG one.

cause as far as i have read, and i havent read a whole lot compared to most of you. there is still no viable way to get the oil out of the algae thats safe, cost effective, profitable and clean.

to be honest, I'd much rather go find 2 acres of land to do algae than i would 80 acres to do jatropha, but i see no product at the end of all the algae hype thats for sale. just equipment.

does someone know something i dont? (a VERY VERY VERY real possibility)

so can someone show me, SKIP all the steps to grow harvest feed talk to or anything else with algae, and just show me how to take 20 tons you've gathered out of your ponds or raceways or PBR's, and show me how you get oil out of it?

thanks guys, and sorry for the rambling, I am honestly curious to know how you get oil, pure, clean and marketable.

There are a lot of people a lot further along than they can say. there are a lot of NDAs signed amongst those working on this algae to biofuels I know for a fact that one of our clients has gotten over 49% oil out algae as a result of thier efforts

 there are some pbrs out there that are extremely advanced and some processes that are way ahead of  where people think things are. we know that for a fact but again there are certain security measures being taken in this highly competitive field.

although we are a r&d and educational organisation people are taking what we have taught them and building some large projects. in fact we have just come back from supervising a project in georgis and the first two ponds are up and running and plans call for a lot more on  that large farm. I have pix that I want to post on the  media section of our latest project but i dont have the program yet to do so. we have purchased two programs one is a vhs to dvd converter that will allow us to edit our vhs of all the ponds built ,into a well edited DVD format we also have purchased anLG external multi dvd rewriter 20X dvd 8.5 GB so soon well be able to do what we said we were going to do, which is put out a dvd  sequence which we will then post on Utube.

 we expect that this will put to rest once in for all a lot of the speculation and naysaying that is going on in this forum about wether or not this technology is viable... our little  DXG 569vHD 5.1 megapixel camera has taken some great pix,we just made prints of some of our most recent closed loop construction project ill scan them and send them toBD so they can be posted.

this technology is viable and  progressively ongoing,

in todays ewthical climate, I dont blame others for playing it close to the chest when releasing information about thier  algae to biofuel projects.

why should hard earned progress results be given out willy nilly so that the lazy and greedy idea thieves can steal it  for thier benefit.

 its easy for the open sourcers to bitch and moan about those who dont tell all about thier work. they have nothing to lose because they have nothing to offer.... if they did they would be singing another tune entirely...

marc

here ill tell you exactly how to extract lipids.

the following are proven processes.

A. the dry column method

B. the bligh and dyer method

C. the two step bligh and dyer method

those work on all lipids

go to our  how to grow algae manual; for detailed descriptions of the processes amentioned

buy a soxhlet extractor

some isopropanol alcohol

some Hexane.

a hot plate, (CAUTION dont spill any chemicals  near it)

 a laminar flow air extraction system

be carefull not to breathe any fumes.... work outdoors or in an well ventilated  lab environment.

good luck have at it....

 Marc

hi Marc,

well. now that seems like some straight answers to an honest question or two. I'll have a look and see whats up with all of those technologies. of course i realize that people play their options close to the chest. it all comes down to getting some type of return for all of the hard work they put into it. which is the best way to do business.

you do have to figure that if any of those technologies you mentioned, would slip out somehow, a disgruntled worker, a scientist banking on making the superfast huge $$$ deal instead of waiting around to see if the company is going to turn a profit.

thanks for the input and i'll check around to see if any of those actually do the work i was asking about. i'll try not to be too skeptical in my readings, but one would think, if its as easy as all of that, then people (at least those here and other like boards) would be flocking to it to make their own oil. but then again, I can almost spell algae correctly most of the time so its easy to imagine a lot of it is beyond me. but i'll try.

thanks again Marc

LOL, Marc you make it sound like a Dare!

I hope when I get there, to extracting the Lipids, that I dont run up on any of the warnings you put out.

So I have to buy your book? It will put into simple english, the process I must use to get my first bucket of Diesel? I'm that close?

Dick

while we cover the oil extraction methods in good detail down to how much of this and that to use,

we do not go beyond the extraction of lipids.

we are leaning towards advocating  the use of straight veggie or algae oil rather than to go to transesterification into biodiesel for reasons of  safety,cost of  time,money and energy .also because straight oil wether it be veggie or algae oil is a truely sustainable and renewable fuel whereas transesterified oil is not, because

.A. it uses a non renewable ,hazardous and costly component (methanol)

 B. It requires another component that is hazardous and costly (lye) 

 C. It requires additional  costly time and labour.

 one of our associates has developed a direct oil use system  for diesels that is markedly improved over the "greasalator "type direct oil use systems. it adresses  filtration,fuel line deterioration, viscocity and other problems associated with the use of these direct oil systems.as well as cost factors.

marc

Pro,

(reply to old post)

There is a group of us who are working on the homebrew approach - which we think may lead to a commercial approach.  We don't have the answers yet, please come help us develop them at:

http://us.groups.yahoo.com/group/oil_from_algae/join

C,

This is an idea that researchers, working with small samples in labs, believe can be scaled up to mass quantities.  No one has proven it really well yet (TCO and Auburn in Alabama has done the best demo and presentation).  This is still in the research stage.  But face it, the last time I was in Texas, I did not see jatroba fields and tallow plantations.  They may have problems with USA costs and with scaling up also.

ccheek:

I truly hope this post isnt misconstrued as a slam against algae. I really hope that the methods are developed to grow and extract the oil, it looks like an amazing opportunity if someone can come up with how to get the oil safely.

 

My question is, if its so bleedin hard to do at this point in time, why not use other methods of growing oils? say chinese tallow, or jatropha (you all know by now this is my favorite), and other methods.

 

If you have to build a thousand acre plantation, starting today, then tallow is a surer bet.  But many people believe there is a potential for a better solution, if we give the research time to mature.

ccheek:

I understand the many hands make light work of any project. and i think we actually do need more and more people doing this, waiting on that someone thats going to find out that if you sink the oil into a container full of bat brains, then the X does the Y and the Z is automatically DD'd after 2 weeks, strain off the C and viola! you have usable oil.

 

Agreed - we need to work together on the many aspects of the farming techniques needed to do this.

ccheek:

what im trying to get to is this. for those of us interested in algae, without a degree in chemistry, or a degree in anything else, (and i dont mean to cast dispersions), but why are all of the newbies getting suckered into a $50,000 setup (or less) to make algae when no one has obtained more than say a liter of oil from it? why arent they investing or starting off with wind, solar, jatropha, WVO or something they can actually do.

 

On my group, I try to deflate the scammers trying to take people's money before they have proven production.  I believe most of the scams are directed at stock investors rather than farmers.

ccheek:

for some reason, I see this picture of a few hundred thousand folk out there with a few hundred million tons of algae and not a clue of what to do with it next.

 

Maybe one or two.  When we start  measuring algae grown in tons, someone will figure out the next step.

ccheek:

I in no way mean to discourage anyone from researching algae, doesnt anyone think that there are other methods that are better suited for NOW? processes that actually work?

 

There are processes that work.  Algae has the potential to be much more productive.  Soybeans work - 100 gallons per acre (I'm not sure I remember this right - someone correct me).  Algae may be 5,000 gallons per acre.

ccheek:

5 years from now we may be able to do it on a grand scale, but today? I wish there was a way, safe, clean, easy and profitable. ok maybe not easy, but the other 3 are a must.

 

We need to be working on a variety of approaches.  We don't have to the final solution in place in the next six months.

ccheek:

dont ride me for bringing this up. maybe it will even provide the drive for someone to fix the issues with algae. im just wondering, if BP can sink however much they did, say on the order of 10 million, into algae, and got 175ml. they'd move on to something else.

 

Most corporations have a longer term view tahn that.  175ml proves it works.  Now they have to scale up and reduce costs.

ccheek:

all of you doing algae now are providing invaluable data and research now though, which strains, methods, feeding, harvesting. all up to the point of getting the oil out.

we need a think tank on that process alone. a BIG one.

 

We have that think tank, with almost two thousand people, all around the globe.  You are invited to join our group and help make algae oil a reality.

http://us.groups.yahoo.com/group/oil_from_algae/join

ccheek:

cause as far as i have read, and i havent read a whole lot compared to most of you. there is still no viable way to get the oil out of the algae thats safe, cost effective, profitable and clean.

 

There are lots of possiblities.  Help us work tham out.

ccheek:

to be honest, I'd much rather go find 2 acres of land to do algae than i would 80 acres to do jatropha, but i see no product at the end of all the algae hype thats for sale. just equipment.

 

I suggest a 1/4 acre to start with.

ccheek:

does someone know something i dont? (a VERY VERY VERY real possibility)

 

TCO is making it work.

ccheek:

so can someone show me, SKIP all the steps to grow harvest feed talk to or anything else with algae, and just show me how to take 20 tons you've gathered out of your ponds or raceways or PBR's, and show me how you get oil out of it?

 

To test the oil percentage, use hexane (the process Marc talks about).

For a production process, there are many possilities.  My favorite is reversing the osmotic pressure (add salt to a freshawter culture).

ccheek:

 

thanks guys, and sorry for the rambling, I am honestly curious to know how you get oil, pure, clean and marketable.

So are we. Help us find out