Disclaimer: I have never actually jumped off a tall building myself. [:)] Recently I attended a class given by Jon Van Gerpen, an acknowledged and accredited researcher and leader in the field of Biodiesel in this country. He told us how he came to work on BD research. It started about 20 years ago at the University of Iowa where he began research into using SVO in compression ignition engines. His premise was that it was a economically viable way to fuel modern diesel engines (the soy oil being a 'byproduct' of caking the soybeans for animal feed and other uses). He was working in conjunction with John Deere on this engine research, as they were eager to ascertain if farmers could use SVO or a mixture of SVO and D2 to mitigate their fuel costs (and no doubt to hopefully buy more combines, tractors, etc.) What he concluded was that it was, over the [shorter] lifespan of the engine, not a good fuel. He showed us pictures of cylinder wall scoring (due to carbonization), piston ring carbonization, injector coking, valve carbonization, and injector, injector pump and fuel pump failures. The problems had to do with the glyceride backbone, the viscosity of the fuel, and the crap that is left behind when the tri-glyceride is incompletely combusted (in an unmodified diesel engine). He observed and documented that SVO shortened the life of the modern diesel engines due to these factors, and led to higher maintenance costs and shorter MTBF (mean times between failure) for fuel system components. (Not to mention the nastier emmissions due to incomplete burning of the glycerine component of the tryglyceride...) It was after he concluded that SVO was not a viable fuel for C-I engines that he began his research into transesterified VO fuels (aka: Biodiesel) for use in compression ignition engines. Which continues to this day (in conjunction with the ag guys that are developing oilseed crops with a higher polyunsaturated fat profile). So, based on this, I burn BD, and will not burn SVO. This is because, based on research by folks "much more smarter than I" (in this regard), it appears that burning SVO is a false economy, and worse for the environment than burning BD. I don't need to ruin an engine first hand (or the associated fuel system components) to validate and believe a credible source of information. [^] -kDavid ----------------- "If you can't understand how something works, keep disassembling it until you can..." -BioDiesel F250 6.9L

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Originally posted by kdavid ... It started about 20 years ago at the University of Iowa where he began research into using SVO in compression ignition engines. ... What he concluded was that it was, over the [shorter] lifespan of the engine, not a good fuel. He showed us pictures of cylinder wall scoring (due to carbonization), piston ring carbonization, injector coking, valve carbonization, and injector, injector pump and fuel pump failures. The problems had to do with the glyceride backbone, the viscosity of the fuel, and the crap that is left behind when the tri-glyceride is incompletely combusted (in an unmodified diesel engine). He observed and documented that SVO shortened the life of the modern diesel engines due to these factors, and led to higher maintenance costs and shorter MTBF (mean times between failure) for fuel system components. (Not to mention the nastier emmissions due to incomplete burning of the glycerine component of the tryglyceride...)

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Just out of curiousity, was he doing anything to the soy oil prior to combustion, or was the project basically just dumping raw soy oil "byproduct" into the tank and running it? The reason I ask is Clemson did a faculty inquiry into this several years ago, when they first started onto a track that really emphasizes soy experimentation on their extension grounds and agricultural experimentation stations. They too concluded that it was a poor fuel, causing injector coking, ring scoring, valve carbonisation, and so on. However, reading their report turned up that all they were doing was dumping soy oil (Or slightly diesel-thinned soy oil) into the fuel tanks after only a very basic preliminary filtration (50-micron). No preheating, finer filtration, no nothing. It doesn't seem to me, from listening to and reading the words of SVOers here and at the Infopop forum, that many users have these problems (Drop in MTBF, Piston/Cylinder damage, injecter clogging/coking and so on). But they do near universally pre-heat the oil while it's in the fuel loop before injection, and most all of them filter down to at least 20 micron ranges, if not 10, 5 or finer. Could this be the difference? Fuels burn differently based on their temperature pre-ignition... could be that cold SVO/WVO burns like crap but properly warmed oil burns more smoothly. The injector pump failures sound almost exactly like what would happen if you were trying to burn unwarmed oil; it's just too thick! Having said that, I still plan on doing both myself. If I run into problems, I'll either work them out or drop that fuel, as such is life you know? "Diesel Pirate of Pendleton!"

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Originally posted by Turbinepowered Just out of curiousity, was he doing anything to the soy oil prior to combustion, or was the project basically just dumping raw soy oil "byproduct" into the tank and running it?

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From what I understand, the tests were done on refined soy oil (ie: filtered and degummed). Don't know about the preheating of the oil, but combustion is definitely affected by the glycerine backbone still being present. Yes, for sure. Such is life. -kDavid ----------------- "If you can't understand how something works, keep disassembling it until you can..." -BioDiesel F250 6.9L

Hello everyone. First off, I admire everyone's dedication to such a great solution! I have swung both ways, but my newbie opinion is that there is still one big question that has yet to be answered sufficiently with regards to biodiesel. You have all heard it a million times already...what does a homebrewer with moderate production due with all of the byproduct(glycerin)??? Burning seems to be unsafe if unregulated or very costly for an adequate setup. Dumping doesn't appear to be a good solution from what I hear, either. Hypothetically, there would be way too much to compost in our small yard. The big issue with SVO/WVO, in my opinion, is mechanical failure. Having an above average mechanical inclination, I can handle that. As previous posters pointed out, this method also requires filtering/labor, and I am fine with that, too. The ideal setup for me is a two tank system running WVO as the primary fuel. I would like to make small quantities of biodiesel for the flush stages, and hopefully the limited amount of byproduct would be more manageable. A question for the more knowledgeable folks here... Along with the biodiesel coops that have sprung up in certain areas, what about a shared disposal site where users would pitch in towards the costs of a shared burner?

I know this is an old thread but some of you may need to know this. Lately I have been drying my WVO by heating it up and pouring 5 gallons of glycerin in there and mixing it up and let it sit for 24 hours, drain the glycerin out and then you have dry clean oil. It really works well.