BioDieselNow - Renewable biodiesel fuel

Hi everyone. 

I've spent a bit of time reading through some of the posts, and it seems like some people are getting caught up in the economics of producing Biodiesel from Algae.  Marc mentioned that through commericial use of byproducts he was able to produce Algadiesel for a more reasonable price.  Also, since yeast and sugar wouldn't work as well on an industrial scale, I've been thinking about other CO2 sources. 

This is what I am suggesting:  Cogeneration of Biodiesel and Biogas via anaerobic digestion. 

I am working with Biogas right now, and we produce a 60-40 Methane-CO2 mix.  When you process 100 000 tons of substrate a year, this adds up to a lot of CO2.  The same goes for Natural Gas.  When these sources are tapped, there is a lot of CO2 that the energy companies don't do anything with.  If there is a natural gas tap around any of you, it might be worth looking into, that is if you feel that you are ready to step up in scale. 

 Biodiesel produces glycerine, right?  We work with a number of sites that feed glycerin to our anaerobic digesters because of its compact energy. 

Right now, I am working on effluent treatments for our reactors.  The effluent is very nutrient rich with P, N, and K.  We need to be able to treat it because if we ran it into a local water source it would cause Algae Blooms. 

Starting to see the cycle? 

Anyway if anyone has an in with BioGas, this might be something to look into.  Right now I have zero experience with algae, but I'm terribly interrested. 

Froggy, I know of a particular BioGas company in Wisconsin, so maybe that would be something for you to look into. 

 

 

you are right on the money

 in our scnario here, we have always included a methane digestor to provide the gas for our distillery-biodiesel plant.

 in order to get the gas ,we fed the wet mash to hogs in a confinement feedlot that has a slanted floor so we can flush the pig poop into our methane digestor.

 the effluent from the digestor was used to provide nutrients for the algae pond that was the original reason why we built the closed loop ecosystem to get rid of the effluent and supenatants by bioremediating them  through the use of algae and litoral emergent wetland plants.

 then we added the fish into the mix when we were no longer running the distilery 24/7 due to the lull in interest in Ethanol abd biofuels in generated by that that wonderfull and beloved ronnie regan  by dismantling the energy programs that carter has instituted. so we substituted the hogs by including fish in a mutually symbiotic relationship with the algae 

what is most interesting is that some of the most favored algae to feed fish are also the best for the production of lipids. pretty ironic..

so yes cogeneration is vital to the eocnomic well being of the algae production scenario, so is hydroponics and solar. that is why we call it a closed loop ecosystem. now we are about to embark on the development of sustainable  housing developments where we will incorporate all the aspects of sustainable systems design. basically we have at one time or the other integrated a broad array of renewable and sustaingle energy production systems including Gasification, methane gas production ethanol, biodiesel, hydroponics, solar passive and active, etc, . that is what we are about. the Ecogenics Research Center for the Study of Alternative Solutions and Land Stewardship.

marc

UDynasty:

  Froggy, I know of a particular BioGas company in Wisconsin, so maybe that would be something for you to look into.  

I know of 3 biogas companies in Wisconsin. And all 3 claim co-operation with German companies.

Let me guess... Clear Horizons of PieperPower?

Even at current high energy pricing, AD systems lose money in Wisconsin. We would need much higher prices for AD systems to add value in the USA.

froggy:

I know of 3 biogas companies in Wisconsin. And all 3 claim co-operation with German companies.

Let me guess... Clear Horizons of PieperPower?

Even at current high energy pricing, AD systems lose money in Wisconsin. We would need much higher prices for AD systems to add value in the USA.

 

 

Any idea why they are losing money, Froggy? Getty has been making money selling methane from urban landfills since the late eighties. It would seem that if you could make money from landfills, you should be able to do quite well with gase generated by dairies and feed lots.

Billy Greenacre:

  Any idea why they are losing money, Froggy? Getty has been making money selling methane from urban landfills since the late eighties. It would seem that if you could make money from landfills, you should be able to do quite well with gase generated by dairies and feed lots. 

  High cost of steel and building materials. High cost of heating in Wisconsin. High cost of lack of scale (typically... cost can come down to a matter of scale. 6000head can make it, 1000 lose.). Im not sure who is 'Getty' specifically but I could imagine a landfill being a larger, cheaper source of feedstock than manure. I'll betchya more gov 'grants' to offset the cost of doing biz. And AD systems are horribly inefficient.

Gasification is coming... No muss, no fuss, just ash and KWH's.

 I am all too aware about the cost of steel. Plate is running $0.81/lb. The price of pipe is hideous.

 I'm completely new to this discussion...my interests are very parochial (as evidenced by my username...:-)), but after about a week, it's clear to even me that algea isn't going anywhere as an alternative fuel unless something dramatic in the science was overlooked.  But, hey, it makes for fun reading!

What is obvious, though, is that gasification is coming.  It's proven science that is profitable. 

 But, I like what LS9 is doing.  If it scales up, I'm gonna buy me some of those bugs, put them in my 'bioreactor' in the garage and start feeding it crap. 

In all seriousness, though, this is a fun forum.   I hope no one is offended by my 2 cents...

froggy:

I know of 3 biogas companies in Wisconsin. And all 3 claim co-operation with German companies.

Let me guess... Clear Horizons of PieperPower?

Even at current high energy pricing, AD systems lose money in Wisconsin. We would need much higher prices for AD systems to add value in the USA.

Hi Froggy,

You are right that Bio Gas is heavily co-operated with German companies, mostly because of their generous Renewable Energy Law that has created a business boom. 

Right now, my company has a parter company in the New Berlin area, AMBICO American Biogas Company.  

You aren't wrong in your assesment of the BioGas industry in the US right now, but it certainly can't be written off.  In dairy and meat raising areas, animal waste is can be a big problem.  Anaerobic Digestion addresses this. 

Also, animal manure registers very low on methane production compared to other renewable resources, like corn, food wastes, and glycerine as I mentioned.  Right now, the US doesn't have the same environmental requirements as places like Germany and Korea, where population density forces land to be used as efficiently as possible.  Even a policy as simple as waste sorting (where plastics, metals, paper, and organic matter like food wastes are all sorted and disposed of properly) could have a huge impact on the AD industry. 

Just think about how much food restaurants, hotels, and homes throw out or grind down in the garbage disposal.  Animal waste is a law pleaser.  Food waste is a money maker. 

motorhomeman:

 What is obvious, though, is that gasification is coming.  It's proven science that is profitable. 

 But, I like what LS9 is doing.  If it scales up, I'm gonna buy me some of those bugs, put them in my 'bioreactor' in the garage and start feeding it crap. 

Hi Motorhomeman,

Anaerobic Digestion is also proven science.  The profitability of it, just like any technology depends on the economic structures in place. 

I just checked out LS9, and it looks, just as you said, very promising.  If they do scale up, they would probably replace the AD field.  Right now, though AD is already there.  And by "there" I mean generating energy from waste.