I have tried using methanol to produce biodiesel in my country but with the abundance of ethanol raw material i want to know what effect it will have when used to produce biodiesel. some works have reinterated that it is alot more difficult but i wish you enlighten me more explicitly.i look forwar to sharing my research findings with you for further work.thanks.[8][8]

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Originally posted by shakayunusa
I have tried using methanol to produce biodiesel in my country but with the abundance of ethanol raw material i want to know what effect it will have when used to produce biodiesel. some works have reinterated that it is alot more difficult but i wish you enlighten me more explicitly.i look forwar to sharing my research findings with you for further work.thanks.[8][8]

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To understand your thoughts better, please explain form what original product you intent to produce ethanol, if this is what you are saying. My first thought would be, why do you intend to go from an original biomass through ethanol to biodiesel? I don't see how this can be efficient. Why not look for a way to transform your original feedstock directly into a diesel product?

you can use any dry alcohol to make biodiesel. Methanol is most often used because it's the cheapest and easiest to use. Methanol is quite a bit more forgiving with water content that ethanol is. Also, I think ethanol needs a higher reaction temprature and it's harder to mix KOH/NaOH in it. 2006 VW Golf TDI

Hello cfunderburg Have you actually made biodiesel using ethanol? How high did the WVO titrate? I understand that it is almost impossible/impossible to make biodiesel from Isopropyl alcohol. BB

I am begining a research project at my University to learn more about the production of biodiesel from ethanol. Once complete, i will have a design for an automated processor. The reason for the automated processor design will be because of the difficulties in using ethanol as compared to methanol. The reason I am interested in nailing the process using ethanol is because ethanol is a fully renewable chemical/fuel. Methanol is currently made from natural gas, a fossil fuel. Methanol can be made from wood, but the yields are not worth it. Approximately 1 ton of wood will yield 1 liter (0.26 gallons) of methanol. As of right now I haven’t attempted to create biodiesel from ethanol, but I will be experimenting in the upcoming two months. Anyone with personal experience in using ethanol for biodiesel would be very helpful in providing me with some insight. As of right now all the information I have is from the Internet.

hello there my friend iam currently working on using ethanol instead of ethanol in producing biodiesel i'll inform you about the progress of my experiments as soon as i gather enough information. by the way iam also a student and iam also making a research about using ethanol in producing biodiesel and at the sane time optimizing the process [:D] my life has a perfect Cast but i cannot figure out the Plot...

I also am interested in any research that is avalable on use of ethonol as a catylist. I am a designer, if anyone needs exacting design work done in the premere 2006 Solidworks 3D modeling, for biofuels equipment. I will consider trading my time for use of good ideas, and share in any patents and royalties if u apply for them, etc. If u are going to make money from the ideas I design, we can negotiate terms for my work. I can do very complex work, and produce toleranced machinable parts, real life like color 3D renderings and plans. leslieah@juno.com

Hi leslieah, Ethanol is not a catalyst for making biodiesel, ethanol is a medium for transeterifiaction, it is rite?? Mariady

The Profs at University of Idaho (Van Gerpen and Peterson) have made a fair amount of biodiesel with ethanol. From casual conversation with them I gathered that it must very, very dry-ie: they had to ask their supplier (Simplot) to do extra processing and that it takes 1.44 times the amount of methanol when using ethanol. I walked away with the impression it will be awhile before we are routinely using ethanol at a homebrew level. But I'd love for someone to prove that wrong!![:D] Good U of I site here: http://www.uidaho.edu/bioenergy/ Chris E. Quantum Guy

Hi everyone. Well i have been pretty busy this last month trying to use the journeytoforever.com "Fool Proof" method to make ethyl-esters. After a few failed test batches, i finally got the process to work and managed to get settling of the glycerol. Last night i did a simple water wash with distilled water and i am still letting it re-settle. Only thing that concerns me is that the glycerol that is being produced is white. Can anyone tell me if this is normal when using ethanol? I was expecting some dark glycerol.

 I am using the following in my experiments:

• Soybean oil (using 100ml)
• Ethanol (200 proof)
• Reagent Grade KOH
• Reagent Grade Sulphuric Acid (98%)

First i performed the acid catalysis stage for esterfication and allowed the solution to settle overnight. The next day i did the base catalysis stage for transesterfication and let it settle over the weekend. I tested the ethyl-esters very crudely by dipping a q-tip in it and setting a flame to it. It definately is ethyl-esters!

I then performed a simple water wash and will update with a picture tommorow. I just determined the heat value of #2 diesel fuel with a bomb calorimeter for one of my classes so i will be testing some ethyl-ester samples in the up coming weeks to see how they compare to published values.

 Does anyone here know of any members using sonication to speed up their reactions? I think i came across a post a while ago but havent found it since.

 Steven

 

 

After the wash there was still some suspension in the biodiesel. But it seems to be settling. Really slowly. The wash definately made a huge difference, but in the next two weeks i am going to continue to adjust the process to try get a better reaction. I am also going to try a better wash method. The glycerol layer doest look like a liquid, more like a solid. I'm worried that it may be soap, but the product is definately biodiesel.

ulev:

quote:

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Originally posted by shakayunusa
I have tried using methanol to produce biodiesel in my country but with the abundance of ethanol raw material i want to know what effect it will have when used to produce biodiesel. some works have reinterated that it is alot more difficult but i wish you enlighten me more explicitly.i look forwar to sharing my research findings with you for further work.thanks.

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To understand your thoughts better, please explain form what original product you intent to produce ethanol, if this is what you are saying. My first thought would be, why do you intend to go from an original biomass through ethanol to biodiesel? I don't see how this can be efficient. Why not look for a way to transform your original feedstock directly into a diesel product?

If you're starting with a high oil feedstock, it's simply more efficient to just extract the oil through normal means, and transesterify it into biodiesel. TDP style processes are fine for some feedstocks, depending on the makeup, but pretending it's simply the most efficient way to make diesel from biomass is just wrong.

stevencldr:

Hi everyone. Well i have been pretty busy this last month trying to use the journeytoforever.com "Fool Proof" method to make ethyl-esters.

The "Fool Proof" method has garnered the nickname "Fuel Proof" amongst people who really know what they're doing, since it's simply a bad, bad approach.

And especially if you're stating with fresh oil, there is no reason at all to try an acid base process. The "Fuel Proof" method is just a screwed up acid-base process. 

Mike Briggs:

If you're starting with a high oil feedstock, it's simply more efficient to just extract the oil through normal means, and transesterify it into biodiesel.

I couldn't agree more. 

Mike Briggs:

TDP style processes are fine for some feedstocks, depending on the makeup, but pretending it's simply the most efficient way to make diesel from biomass is just wrong.

I don't know why you interpret my post as talking about a "TDP style process" as I didn't mention TDP.

Actually I am talking about a thermocatalytic process which is more efficient than any kind of conventional biodiesel production ever could be which is not hard to determine even theoretically. The product is not biodiesel (methyl ester) BTW but chemically similar to diesel from crude.

Finally I am not pretending anything, I know. And it is true for any feedstock you could possibly use to make biodiesel from. If you know better, please don't accuse me of pretending something but share precise information about the feedstock for which you believe I am wrong. That would make for a productive discussion. Believe me, I do understand our own process very well.

Mike Briggs:

stevencldr:

Hi everyone. Well i have been pretty busy this last month trying to use the journeytoforever.com "Fool Proof" method to make ethyl-esters.

The "Fool Proof" method has garnered the nickname "Fuel Proof" amongst people who really know what they're doing, since it's simply a bad, bad approach.

And especially if you're stating with fresh oil, there is no reason at all to try an acid base process. The "Fuel Proof" method is just a screwed up acid-base process. 

 

We decided on the fool proof process because we are planning on building an utomated processor that uses WVO. We are trying to avoid titration becasue the sensors needed would raise our cost too much.

 If you have any recomendations of a better process we can follow and/or modify that doesnt involve titration and would be suitable when using WVO as the feedstock, that would be much appreciated.

It seems that when i originally throughtwe had a succesful reaction, we had a lot of soap present in the product. We made some adjustments and got a really good reaction. 

Just a note that ethanol != isopropyl alcohol

What makes you think so?  Ethanol is totaly different from Isoproyl.

Biodiesel can be made from Ethanol and Methanol using a catalyst like lye, but ethanol MUST be dried to at least 99% like methanol. It isnt any cheaper when you get the right stuff.

Biodiesel has been made in the lab using Isopropyl with a catalyst enzime that is VERY expensive to extract.

 Jim

 

dude I dont know where you got your info from 1 ton of wood produces 1 liter.................

I have been producing anywhere from 87 to 110 GALLONS of methanol from a ton ( 2000 lbs. ) of pine wood.

 

What university did you say you attended?????????????????????????????????????

tnilc99, a stupid question, is the methanol from pine wood any safer to handle than methanol from natural gas?  I would presume not, but I have never used wood methanol.

 Which brings up a similar question.  I have made alcohol from a crude still before. (disclaimer for ATF: experimental only)  Can alcohol made from a still be used to mix with NaOH or KOH to make biodiesel fuel?  It would be nice and interesting to see if I could make a true "cradle to grave" biodiesel fuel process using only organic materials.  (BTW, I have also made Lye before, just to see if I could do it.) 

 The reason this is fascinating for me, is because I have a familial history of "moonshiners".