THIS WAS POSTED ON A LESS ACTIVE FORUM, SO I'VE MOVED HERE AND WILL CONTINUE TO UPDATE THIS THREAD WITH MY FINDINGS. Have taken to experimenting with winterizing additives for diesel in hopes of running BD (-EDITED TO CLARIFY THAT UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED, ALL SAMPLES ARE 100% BIODIESEL FROM VIRGIN SOY - WEST CENTRAL I BELIEVE, MARKETED BY BLUE SUN-) all year long. Can't find Arctic Express locally, but should have some by tomorrow sometime and will start testing it the same as these samples. With the test results so far on the Power Service products that claim to have antigelling properties (DFS for instance), I don't hold much hope for the Arctic Express, but others have claimed it does work and many of the truckers I know swear by it. Note: Initially, I wanted to get away from ANY petro products for winterization and find something natural and renewable to accomplish this. That's not looking too good about now. Just prelim tests (not posted here) with various bean oils, etc. that have low cold flow properties failed miserably. Test batches are as follows: 40ml BD, sterile sample jars.

Temp: -5degF/-20.57C.

First try, no additive: Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. 2 - 400:1 dilution (1cc) Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement (hereafter: DFS) = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. 3 - 2cc DFS = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. 4 - 3cc DFS = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. 5 - 4cc DFS = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. ============================================== Changed test parameters, try Power Service Diesel Kleen (hereafter: DK). 1 - 2cc DK = Solid @10degF/-12.23C. 2 - 3cc DK = Solid @10degF/-12.23C. 3 - 4cc DK = Semi-Solid (gelled liquid) @10degF/-12.23C. ===============================================

Test 6: 6 - 4cc DFS/1cc Acetone = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. 7 - 5cc DFS/1cc Acetone = Semi-solid (milkshake consistency) @10degF/-12.23C. 8 - 4cc DK/1cc Acetone = Semi-solid (milkshake consitency) @10degF/-12.23C. (no change noted with Acetone) ================================================ Changed test parameters. Sample size: 20ml 100% BD, sterile sample jars. New anti-gels in this test: Kerosene (Kero) "Diesel Fuel Anti-Gel" by Gunk (DFAG) 9 - 1/2cc Kero = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. 10 - 1/2cc DFAG = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. =============================================== 11 - 2cc Kero = semi-solid (gelled liquid) @10degF/-12.23C. (noticeable phase separation) 12 - 2cc DFAG = Solid (wax) @10degF/-12.23C. ================================================ 13 - 4cc Kero = Liquid (layer gelling) @10degF/-12.23C. (noticeable phase separation - liquid/gelled viscous liquid) 14 - 4cc DFAG = semi-solid (gelled "paste") @10degF/-12.23C. =============================================== 15 - 4cc Kero + 1cc DFS = PENDING 16 - 4cc DFAG + 1cc DFS = PENDING 17 - 5cc Kero = PENDING

Guntrainer, welcome to the forums. A couple of us did some similar tests last year in one of the long threads in this forum. The Arctic Express Biodiesel Antigel does work very well, with a 0.2% concentration being enough to keep it from gelling down below 0F (I believe it was non-gelled down to -10F, if I remember correctly).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Guntrainer Test batches are as follows: 40ml BD, sterile sample jars. Temp: -5 deg F. First try, no additive: Solid (wax) @10 deg. 2 - 400:1 dilution (1cc) Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement (hereafter: DFS) = Solid (wax) @10 deg 3 - 2cc DFS = Solid (wax) @10 deg

---

1 cc = 1 ml, correct? I had good results with 1% DFS (see the bottom of http://einstein.unh.edu/~msbriggs/BioTDI.html ). 2cc in 40 mL is 2%, so I find it rather surprising that that solidified at 10F. Are you sure your thermometer is working properly?

I hope this doesn't run too far afield in the discussions about cold additives. What I have been seeing in the studies so far has focused on testing commercially available anti-gelling products and working out a temperature range - feedstock matrix. Has anything been done to look at naturally occuring anti-gelling agents? Case in point might be the resin chemistry of Spruce and Fir trees (genus Abies). This stuff lends to the freeze resistance of these boreal forest conifers. The chemistry of "Canada turpentine" is somewhat documented and some of the "stuff" in it no doubt could be very bad in the combustion ignition environment. Synthesis or "off the shelf" chemistry to reproduce the anti-gelling components of Abies resin might be worth a look. If it's already been done, please disregard.

That's interesting, Jim. If there were a natural ag, I'd love to use it. What "stuff" would be bad? What more do you know?

I haven't chased this idea far enough myself, but here are a few points. Certain boreal and tundra plant species have an inherent biochemical antifreeze system. Spruce and fir trees included. "Canada Turpentine" is a fragrant resinous extract of Balsam Fir Trees. The yellowish liquid resin has cement-like properties and has been used to mount microscope slides. The short description of this stuff identifies two major volitile fractions, kinene and bornyl acetate, however a broader chemistry discussion identifies many more constituents. Got this from a web search crediting James A Duke, Handbook of Energy Crops, 1983. This may be a cold trail however it might not hurt to check with Purdue University Center for New Crops and Plant Products. The things that would make me REAL HESITANT to take a total extract of Canada Turpentine and titrate it in to biodiesel to watch for gel point depression would be possible flammability and or resin/varnish deposition in pumps, injectors and combustion cylinders. Someone with considerably more plant bio-chem background might identify specific constituents of the resinous mixture that would produce the desired results without locking up an expensive motor. Any way you look at it the idea is a crap shoot, but one that might advance the knowledge of useful biofuel anti-gel agents. Regards

I am new to the forum. With an 87 GMC 6.2d that sits outside, I am also keenly interested in this thread. My idea, er cerebral hiccup is to try B100, with Lucas extreme cold weather fuel system treatment. This stuff is supposed to be good to 20 below or better. I have had good luck with their other products, so I ordered some B100 from a nearby farm coop. Since I don't have a lot of money, I figured I'd just separate it into containers and add different amounts of antigel and see what happens overnight in the freezer.

quote:

---

Originally posted by RallySTX
I am new to the forum. With an 87 GMC 6.2d that sits outside, I am also keenly interested in this thread. My idea, er cerebral hiccup is to try B100, with Lucas extreme cold weather fuel system treatment. This stuff is supposed to be good to 20 below or better. I have had good luck with their other products, so I ordered some B100 from a nearby farm coop. Since I don't have a lot of money, I figured I'd just separate it into containers and add different amounts of antigel and see what happens overnight in the freezer.

---

Tried the Lucas winterizer. It doesn't live up to it's claims. Try some in a sample jar in fridge with B100 before you try in your truck. You'll see what I mean. Also, use TWICE the petro diesel dose for about any winterizer, that's what seems to work with BD.

New to the forums here. Ventured over from TDIclub as we're about to get a second TDI (hopefully), and we have B100 available locally in 55 gallon drums. What do I need to do to prohibit gelling down to -30 degrees Fahrenheit? Have you tested Arctic Express anti-gel down to this temp.? Thanks, Jake

We have recently found a way to get the FloZol 503(Lubrizol) product to blend with the SME that we have. We have the gelling down to 10F with B100. It seems that you have to blend it warm otherwise it falls out of solution.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cumminsbiopwr
We have recently found a way to get the FloZol 503(Lubrizol) product to blend with the SME that we have. We have the gelling down to 10F with B100. It seems that you have to blend it warm otherwise it falls out of solution.

---

Yes, most of the AG's have to be blended well and warm. That's why I winterize my winter fuel in the summer. For the last two years fuel, I've used Power Service Arctic Express (at double dose) and PS DFS at package dose combined in my B100. Last winter I also used 10% by vol of Kero.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mtjake
...we have B100 available locally in 55 gallon drums. What do I need to do to prohibit gelling down to -30 degrees Fahrenheit? Have you tested Arctic Express anti-gel down to this temp.? Thanks, Jake

---

Freezer tests are fine, very low risk. Gel up just once 20 miles from home and one's opinion changes. Gel up twice and one becomes VERY opinionated. I'm VERY opinionated. My additive choice is winterized petrodiesel. I've been to -17F in tank temperature with a B20 blend. I was nervous. Minus 30F? I don't think a B20 blend would flow. Most of the anti-gel additives, Artic Express included, report on the antigel properties when used in a blend of diesel and biodiesel. Other than we who lurk and frequent these forum, there hasn't been any published results of additives when used with B100. My results of Artic Express with B100, unlike others, showed negligible change in lowering the gel point of B100. My opinion, and worth every cent you paid for it, is that the AE is a concentrated form of the Power Service white bottle. When added to a BD / petrodiesel blend according to the ratios in the instructions on each additive, my results were similar for the two products, and not significantly (my opinion) different than a BD / petro blend. My choice is to blend small batches, a few day's worth, of BD and petro in ratios based on the coldest temperatures forecast for the time that that batch is in use. This allowed me to operate last year at an equivalent of B90.

A couple points - freezer tests can be very effective for determining the gel point. The problem is, you'll run into problems at temperatures above the gel point, due to either filter or strainer clogging. The filters in our cars get heated by returning fuel, but that only works once the engine is warmed up. You can put in a heated fuel filter cheaply to take care of that - but there's still the problem of the strainer at the fuel tank outlet clogging, which is probably the failure point for those of us with heated fuel filter or inline heaters before the filter. Guntrainer - with the DFS, I ended up having much better results than you seem to be getting. See the test photos at the bottom of [url="http://einstein.unh.edu/~msbriggs/BioTDI.html"]my page[/url] What type of biodiesel are you using? Is it made from soy oil or WVO? If the latter, that would definitely explain the difference from my results. If the former, I'm not sure what the reason is. For the past two years, my wife and I have usually run B100 with 0.2% PS AE (biodiesel antigel) and 0.8% DFS (so it's really B99) until the temp gets down below 20F during the day (we have the benefit of a garage though for night-time). When temps go lower, we drop down to B70-B80 with the same additive mix. The heater before the filters in our cars may or may not help much. Since the strainer can still clog, and the heater doesn't do squat for that, I'm now thinking heating before the filter doesn't make a big difference by itself, because the strainer can still clog. We now have the heater removed from one of our cars, so we can see if it makes much of a difference. Around here, daytime temps usually don't go much below 0F. During a cold spell last year when it stayed between -10F and 0F for about a week, we ran around B50-B60 with the same blend (and the non-biodiesel portion was regular winterized diesel from a gas station). If we had to deal with -30F temps, I'd probably stay with B20 plus the additive. Up in Maine, B50 with 1% PS AE BD antigel has worked on an early 80s Mercedes down to -20F, so I expect that B20 with 1% PS AE BD would be fine at -30F (according to the Power service data it would be). I've talked with someone from PS about the difference between the DFS and AE BD antigel, and they claim the antigel additive in AE BD is a slightly modified version of the antigel in DFS.

Going back to the balsam fir-derived substance . . . I spoke with someone recently who brought up this idea to me. Here in Colorado, we have tons of ponderosa and lodgepole pine that could provide a similar substance, and since so many young, leafy trees are cut down for fire mitigation, they could perhaps be utilized without additional logging. He also mentioned an oil derived from algae (which he regularly extracts small quantities of for his work on watershed productivity studies) that could maybe provide a similar substance. I think the difference from veg oil and its triglycerides is the presence of turpenes (or turpenoids, maybe?), which I believe can be small or large molecules . . . I'm not sure, he was a little advanced on the organic chemistry for me. Regardless, he suggested that they could be used as a biodiesel antigel which is, as stated above, a similar function as that they serve naturally for the plants. However, he mentioned some concerns about emissions, apparently they are very similar to some of the stuff in petrodiesel that causes harmful emissions. After discussing biodiesel production though, it seemed as thought they might not do well in the reaction, and would have to be added separately. Anyone know more about this type of thing? Any ideas about how lubricity, flash point, cetane, etc. would be affected? How about using something like straight turpentine, which is made from pine resin, correct? Or tea tree oil, which to me seems to have the same sort of odor/volatility that a turpentine would have? I can try to get back in touch with this guy and talk about it some more, at the time I spoke with him I didn't really have the time to do any experiments, but that may change soon. -John

Mike: The tests last year were with Blue Sun (West Central Soy) B100 from 100% virgin soy. Am expanding tests this year to include a home brew from WVO that is thrice-washed and settled for 3-days. The DFS performance with my BD samples surprised me too as it's always worked excellent in petro diesel for winterizing. John: I have a jar in the 0-degF/-17.78C freezer now with a sample of 40ml B100, 40ml Kerosene and 10ml Gum Turpentine just to see what effect it has. Here's a pic of a sample of a 50% kero and 50% B100 mix at 0degF/-17.78C:

Well...., regular Gum Turpentine (the OTC stuff) is out.... Here's a sample using 40ml washed WVO B100 and 20ml OTC Gum Turpentine (std paint-store turp.) Solid as a wax candle at 0degF/-17.78C

Are you sure your temperature readings are correct?

Readings are in a controlled freezer with a variance of +/-5 degrees F. Temps are in degrees F, not C. I'll edit my posts to reflect both temps. Here's the same sample with the 50% turp only with 10ml of PS "Diesel 911" added. This is after 24hours. No effect on the sample. The 911 just remains liquid on top of the solid BD.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Briggs
For the past two years, my wife and I have usually run B100 with 0.2% PS AE (biodiesel antigel) and 0.8% DFS (so it's really B99) until the temp gets down below 20F during the day (we have the benefit of a garage though for night-time). When temps go lower, we drop down to B70-B80 with the same additive mix. The heater before the filters in our cars may or may not help much. Since the strainer can still clog, and the heater doesn't do squat for that, I'm now thinking heating before the filter doesn't make a big difference by itself, because the strainer can still clog. We now have the heater removed from one of our cars, so we can see if it makes much of a difference. Around here, daytime temps usually don't go much below 0F. During a cold spell last year when it stayed between -10F and 0F for about a week, we ran around B50-B60 with the same blend (and the non-biodiesel portion was regular winterized diesel from a gas station).

---

Do you have a heated fuel filter or any other modifications? Also how warm do you keep your garage?

quote:

---

Originally posted by psol25

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Briggs
For the past two years, my wife and I have usually run B100 with 0.2% PS AE (biodiesel antigel) and 0.8% DFS (so it's really B99) until the temp gets down below 20F during the day (we have the benefit of a garage though for night-time). When temps go lower, we drop down to B70-B80 with the same additive mix. The heater before the filters in our cars may or may not help much. Since the strainer can still clog, and the heater doesn't do squat for that, I'm now thinking heating before the filter doesn't make a big difference by itself, because the strainer can still clog. We now have the heater removed from one of our cars, so we can see if it makes much of a difference. Around here, daytime temps usually don't go much below 0F. During a cold spell last year when it stayed between -10F and 0F for about a week, we ran around B50-B60 with the same blend (and the non-biodiesel portion was regular winterized diesel from a gas station).

---

Do you have a heated fuel filter or any other modifications? Also how warm do you keep your garage?

---

I put heaters in front of the filter (see http://einstein.unh.edu/~msbriggs/BioTDI.html ) - but I don't think it'smaking that much of a difference. It probably helps some, but if the fuel is very cloudy, the fuel strainer at the fuel tank will clog anyway, the filter heater doesn't affect that. I removed the heater from one of the cars. We don't heat the garage, but it seems to stay right at about freezing or warmer no matter how cold it gets outside, since it's attached to the house (and our bedroom is above it). I kept a thermometer out there last year, and I think the coldest it got was about 28-30F in the garage (with outside temps well below 0F).

More samples: Test batches are as follows: Sterile sample jars. Temp: 0degF/-17.78C. Sample one - 40ml WVO B100, 10cc AE Blue Bottle Results: SOLID Sample two - 40ml WVO B100, 10cc DFS Results: SOLID