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Casey Petroleum

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Casey Petroleum

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  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 1:44 PM
    From Chuck's email: Still not sure how this will ultimately play out, but I'm pumped up. I *think* Paul wants to mix up Platinum plus B20 with cetane booster and promote AFS as a premier additive/formulation/fuel-guy thing (which is what he wants to promote) and pump it out of the tank in the ground (the Casey tank is approximately 10.000 gallons).? Also, I *think* Duane wants sell Platinum Plus in the ground and offer B100 in an above ground tank, because he wants to promote Platinum Plus as a "Premium Fuel" from Global, and is willing to do BD as a favor.? I'm OK with it either way because I want good fuel without paying a retailer's cut. We'll see. Both want to help us out, but both have their ultimate agendas; I do not know what the resulting product(s) available to us will be at this time or the price, but we have a few good things going here: 1) There is no retailer profit being taken 2) Buying in bulk saves us money on 45+ cetane dino diesel, biodiesel, and additives and 3) road taxes may be reduced by this new law and 4) the quality is going to be extermely high and consistent over time. vvvv===================ACTION ITEMS=================vvvvv Soon, I'll send out a spreadsheet of potential New England Biodiesel revolutionary leaders that will form the original core B.A.B.I. group. We will need to lead the way and each take a section, sending it to folks in our section and ask them if they are interested in COMMITTING to buy a biodiesel product, if the price can be agreed upon in Needham MA (128 and Highland Avenue). We say we have each agreed to X gallons a month for a year (price dependent, of course), and ask what they are willing to do for the cause, if they can find any more recruits, etc. Because I admire his work, I would like to ask Phil if he would consider putting together a great inspirational letter which we can use to get the job done. Phil? I will send out six spreadsheets (one for each of us). Each of us will send the sheet out to those listed as "interested" in BD in Boston and ask them to help form critical mass. The spreadsheets are numbered: 1 Chuck 2 Nate 3 Mark 4 Jon 5 Tom 6 Phil
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 1:45 PM
    Chuck, I really appreciate all the legwork you (and Phil) have been doing. I'd DEFINITELY be really psyched if they could do b100. I'd probably drive up every three weeks or so and fill up a bunch 'o 5-gallon containers and run b60 or so (10 gallons per fillup). BUT, if it's just the high-test b20... I dunno how often I'd fill up. I'm being really honest. I'm just not willing to add 1-2 hours per week to my commute for b20 when I can go up to Maine once a month and run b30. It'd take less of my time per month, and I'd be running a greater BD percentage. In fact, I'm not sure I'm interested in the PPb20 at all. If they had the PPb20 ONLY, I'd do the Maine thing. If they did PPb20 and b100, I'd just get the b100. Just throwing that out there. Edited by - natescape on 03/21/2002 13:45:39
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:03 PM
    Chuck, I just saw your email with the spread sheet attachment. I definitely do not want to appear as though I'm shooting down this initiative, but like Natescape, I'm eager to find out whether we can gain access to B100. Why is there a time constraint that this commitment be made by next week? I can tell you that my cosumption level is not very compelling. I use about 20 gallons a month at this point. Whether this changes is directly linked to WHERE I end up finding work, as you can imagine. Consumption could go much higher, or stay the same if I find work in Boston/Cambridge. I am certainly willing to contact my list of people, but will wait to use whatever letter we decide upon as the bases for describing what we have to offer. I personally would like the bandwidth to scope out all of our options before making the commitment to Global, but don't get me wrong. I'll take B20 with additives over Hess and my own additives. BeetleGo Edited by - BeetleGo on 03/21/2002 14:08:42
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:10 PM
    I personally like the idea of the UltraBlend product: petrodiesel + B20 + Platinum Plus. I am wondering it the B100 product is going to be far too expensive. I think before we can offer a realistic monthly consumption number to Casey, we need to have some sense of cost. Personally, I can't get real excited about paying $2.50 per gallon for straight BD. I can afford it but it seems a bit much. itchin' for the good stuff !
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:18 PM
    Nate, Ideally I would also prefer to run it in a higher blend (B100), but feel it is too much to ask for at this early stage. Our problems are 1) a lack of a secure and accessible location for a tank with logistics taken care of (billing, delivery, etc) 2) the relatively high cost of running BD even at 500 gallons being purchased at a time for those folks who want to keep the costs for a group down. If we want Casey and Global and AFS to help, they need something to show for it. Maybe we should ask for B30?, but that would drive the cost up for the group. My thoughts are to start with B20 (as an industry standard product) with a good fuel base and add your own BD from ME to suit? I don't know. Maybe we need to find out what the 40 or so folks are willing to buy. I'm OK with B20 for now for cost reasons and to get things moving.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:24 PM
    Remember, if Casey will host a B100 tank, folks can mix their own drinks and pay what they like. To me, this is ideal. I will mix B20 due to cost, but anyone else can party right on. We just do not know yet what is going to happen and likely won't until we can give them some kind of idea what we will commit to. Also, B100 will freeze in the winter and nobody will want that to happen. I think it will be an external above ground tank if it happens.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:34 PM
    That's why having a B100 tank and an at the pump blending device would be ideal. Those of us who want to fill up b100 cars and containers can do so, and those who want the high-quality b20 can do that too. The b100 tank would have to be heated somehow (either indoors or with internal/external heaters) or ALL the BD will stop in the winter. Personally, I don't see the b100 being anywhere near the $2.50 we pay at SolarMarket. They have to pay a ton for the shipping, and they get small quantities, which further drives the per-gallon cost up for them. I'd guess (hope?) it'd be $2 at most.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:34 PM
    Perhaps we can get a small (500 gal) tank of PP and a 500 gallon tank of B100 at casey? My guess is as good as anyone's
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 2:38 PM
    quote:
    Remember, if Casey will host a B100 tank, folks can mix their own drinks and pay what they like. To me, this is ideal.
    Agreed. That would represent a perfect solution, IMO. itchin' for the good stuff !
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 3:48 PM
    Well, It seems there is enough concern here to warrant an email to AFS and Global regarding "what" our people will be able to buy. I suppose it is fair to say that the purists are willing to spend twice the going rate - for B100 and the rest of us would like to keep the costs down while running a premium based B20 or even PP straight. I'll CC y'all on the mail asking Duane/Paul what the possibilities are for either or both capabilities.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 3:58 PM
    I think that's a great idea. We'll need to quote some prices when we email all the petition signees....
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 4:23 PM
    Letter to Global and AFS: Hello Duane and Paul, First of all, I want to again thank both of you for your willingness to explore this issue with us; we are really thrilled about it. Two questions have popped up in our discussions before we go and ask people who are interested what they can commit to. 1) What fuel/fuels might be available and 2) What is a rough guesstimate on price. They'll want to know what they are getting in to :-) From our conversations, I understand Diesel-One with Platinum plus may become available and we have folks here who really want to try it, as-is. Then, we have folks who would love to run Platinum Plus B20 year-round. At the same time, hard core members in the group regularly drive to Maine and are paying 2.50 a gallon for B100 and carting it home in jugs and fuel tanks to mix-in during the winter and run it straight in warm weather, even though it's twice the price. If the Casey lube underground tanks really hold 10,000 - 20,000 gallons of fuel, that's quite a lot for a pilot program and a small group of diesel enthusiasts; we want everyone to succeed here and get what they need. We were therefore wondering if there might be a way to start smaller and let folks mix the two fuels. People could pay "x" for Diesel-One Platinum Plus and "y" for B100 both out of smaller tanks as we get started and grow in size. This way, people can try them both, and we'll get a better idea what the group "really" wants to buy as we move along. I believe it's safe to assume that "x" would not be much more than the average pump price at stations that currently sell Diesel-One (<$1.30ish), and "y" would be less than we pay in Maine (<$2.50ish). Is this reasonable as a basis for product and price as we go soliciting committments from our group? I know this is not your only project, so please just drop an email or a phone call back when you get a chance, and we'll gather the information needed to consider the pilot. Thanks again for your time, Chuck Young
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 4:27 PM
    Did you send it yet? The only thing I'd change is the non-blending. Although I suppose users could go and pump in X gallons of BD and run over to the PP pump and finish the fill-up.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 4:30 PM
    Yep. Gone. We can discuss how to mix/bill at an appropriate time. The key here is getting started and convincing Butch at Casey to host it. This could work out well (I Hope!)
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 4:33 PM
    I wonder if we can get Guiness and Harp on tap too? Maybe we should suggest a pub night with us taking the three of them out for fish n chips and good beer to help sway their opinions! In fairness to Phil, no more Indian for a little while :-)
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 4:41 PM
    Guys... lots of activity today! Okay, here's my take on the situation: While driving around with the roof open and the windows down today, simultaneously trying to get great fuel mileage and use up what's left of my rot gut diesel so that I can replace it with bio in case I end up at Tufts this weekend (which it looks like I will), it occurred to me that I would be really psyched to be able to buy a premium diesel WITH B20 at the pump less than 20 miles from home. In my particular case, and I assume others would do this as well, I would STILL be supplementing that with 5-10 gallons of B100 per tankful. Which would mean that I'm still driving to ME once every 6 weeks or so, but in the meantime, I'm getting a higher percentage of bio because my top up diesel has some in it PLUS the rest of diesel is high grade stuff. So I like the developments, at least for an initial setup. However, because I would be mixing with copious amounts of B100, I wouldn't be able to commit to buying much of this PP+B20 per month... maybe 20 gallons.
    "The best is the enemy of the good." -- Voltaire "The pursuit of perfection often impedes improvement." -- George F. Will
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 4:50 PM
    I think the ideal is to mix your own to suit your needs/budget. This is my/our primary objective and I think Duane likes the idea. Let's see what the reply looks like when it comes. Maybe it is totally cool.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 5:03 PM
    Chuck, I will begin a draft of a letter that we can send out to our diesel disciples, however it will be diffcult to do much with it before we all the information we need is at hand.
    "The best is the enemy of the good." -- Voltaire "The pursuit of perfection often impedes improvement." -- George F. Will
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 6:06 PM
    OK betamax. Dudes, Here is the reply from Paul and my reply back: Paul, Thanks for your swift reply. To be clear, the $2.50 was/is for B100 neat in small quantities: http://www.solarmarket.com/products/biodiesel/biodiesel.html Our understanding of this product comes from: http://www.worldenergy.net/specifications.htm My thought was for Global to be able to offer the Platinum Plus product "straight" for anyone who wanted to test it (even those outside our group that Global wanted to reach) as a marketing tool, and to sell the B100 as a mixer to see how folks (even those outside our group) who were interested in a bio-based fuel as a blending agent would "actually" use it; also a test market tool. For Pricing, here is what solar market does (as an example): 0 - 50 gal. $2.45 50 - 500 gal. $2.25 500 - 2500 gal. $1.96 2500 + gal. $1.86 For fun, let's say I pull up to the B100 tank and pour in 2 gals of B100 @ 2.25. Then, I grab 8 gals of D-1 PP @ 1.35: 10.80 + 4.50=15.30. And 15.30/10=$1.53 If we need to include project startup costs, it is understandable, but raises the bar for those consumers who have to commit to those costs. OTOH, suppose for Earth Day, I lose all my senses and grab 10 gallons of B100 for 22.50 and go to the parade. It could happen ;-) If the recommendation is for two 500 gallon tanks, I guess I'm not clear where the cost factors in, to place PP in one and B100 in the other. Maybe World Energy and/or the club members could help defray some of these setup costs if we understood them better. We have all been talking to Keith Ciampa in Chelsea these last few weeks and he has been looking for a chance to introduce B100 locally: mailto:keithc@worldenergy.net 617.889.7300 http://www.worldenergy.net/ Like I said, we'd like to see everyone get something out of this with mimimal risk all around. If Duane only wants to test market PP-B20, we will take that back to our folks and see what we can do; we just wanted to explore all the alternatives. Talk to you later, Chuck Young Phil LaFond Tom Pedersen Jon Bartlett Mark Meachen Nate Byrnes -----Original Message----- From: Paul Nazzaro [mailto:advancedfuel@attbi.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:53 PM To: 'Chuck Young'; dmclevedge@globalp.com Cc: phil@lafonds.net; tom_pedersen@mindspring.com; Jonbonbart@aol.com; 'Mark Meachen'; 'Nate Byrnes' Subject: RE: Two quick questions Chuck et al, I can field that question quickly. For a project of this size I would recommend to my valued client Global Companies, LLC to place (1-2) 550 gallon cube totes with finished DieselOne w/Platinum Plus/20% Biodiesel already to go. The price today for something like that would be with taxes, 1.75 per gallon, (truly a rough estimate). I would not use the existing in ground bulk storage tank for this project just because of the reasons you mentioned earlier, (pilot/speculative project). Totes are stainless steel tanks with a foot print of 42x48 and roughly 72" high. We could install a fueling dispenser to the tote and have it somewhere on the property visible to the general public (for positive press coverage). It is unlikely that we would or could even justify giving your membership the option to cocktail mix Platinum Plus/Diesel One and Biodiesel on this site. The costs associated with that would go well beyond "common sense". I think if we are able to blend all the valuable elements together and bring it to you in a safe, reliable dispensing unit at a central site like Casey it would make absolutely no sense to worry about the economics. I am not being careless with my comments about economics here only realistic. Let's face it, if you all have been traveling to Maine to pick up 2.50 per gallon of a B20 fuel with no real understanding of the fuel specifications anything $2.50 or under to access this level quality would be a bargain. Duane, please feel free to comment on my remarks and Chuck's initial inquiry.
  • Posted by
    on 21 Mar 2002 10:26 PM
    Guys, during the course of all these discussions, has anyone asked about the resulting PPM count of sulfur on this UltraBlend wonder product? Just curious since I had noticed a Cetane minimum of 45 being quoted. itchin' for the good stuff !
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