Re: "Big 3"s Problem

I can tell you part of why the "Big 3" are struggling and have been losing market share:  they aren't listening to people who would buy thier product.

I love my wrangler.  One day, I found a survey at a jeep site that asked owners if they would prefer a diesel or gas wrangler.  Something like over 80% of wrangler owners said they would prefer a diesel.  Type "diesel wrangler" into google and you'll see that wrangler owners are biting at the bullet to buy one.  Here's the irony:  they already produce one, but don't offer it in the U.S.

You know, for all the money the top-level managers make to figure out what people want to buy, they sure seem blind and deaf.  And when I wrote Chysler an email, showing them the survey, all I got was a form letter back, telling me stuff I already knew.  Its maddening, particulary since  I'm from Michigan and having to feel the market loss Detroit keeps suffering....

...so I'm trying to figure out how to call out Chrysler in a very public manner, something legal and inventive.  Something to shake them out of their slumber.  Fund raiser to take out a full-page ad? 

 ...they scratch their heads wondering why their losing market share to the Japs or Europeans.... and yet can't say that nobody try to tell them

Its not a problem with the Big Three, its all the eco-nazie tree hugging hippies. For what ever dumb reason the EPA dose not want small diesels in this country. Remember all the talk about the 07 VW TDIs? Same problem applies to Jeep. And I’m one who would kill for a diesel powered JK. I just bought my diesel Jeep WK while back and I love it.

 

America will come around sooner or later. As soon as we get some people who can change the EPA laws about small diesel engines. The real problem is most Americans are ignorant about diesels and think they are just noisy and black out intersections with exhaust. In the past few years with engines using common rail fuel delivery systems to reduce noise, and the use of ULSD has pretty much stopped a lot of the “black smoke” you see from trucks.

 

Now that ULSD and DPFs are mandatory on ALL diesel engines, I think we will see more and more diesels in America. Jeep is working hard to do this. They had the CRD KJ, and now the CRD WK, it’s a step in the right direction.

I don't think "tree-hugging hippes" have that much pull in Washington.

I do agree that regulations are set in such a way that they strongly favor gas emissions over diesel emissions. That being said, with ULSD, we're going to see a flood of diesels coming over... diesels that will open the mind of even the most stoned hippies.

Back on topic, though... yes, the big three has been caught napping again about making fuel efficient vehicles. They bet, BIG TIME, on cheap gas and were very successful building and selling monster SUVs. But that strategy is biting them on the rear end as gas increases in price and Americans are forced to look elsewhere for fuel efficient vehicles.

The thing I find perplexing is how these companies treat the American market.  Keep in mind, that each is a multi-national company what sells products all over the world.  GM makes and sells diesel powered passenger cars in Europe that I would be very happy to purchase if they were available here in the US.  For some reason, the marketing folks think that the only thing Americans want are huge SUVs and gas powered econoboxes.

Todd 

brewer13104:

The thing I find perplexing is how these companies treat the American market.  Keep in mind, that each is a multi-national company what sells products all over the world.  GM makes and sells diesel powered passenger cars in Europe that I would be very happy to purchase if they were available here in the US.  For some reason, the marketing folks think that the only thing Americans want are huge SUVs and gas powered econoboxes.

Todd 

Some of this is because of the value of the US$. In essence, the weak $ has made it easier and more profitable for multinationals to sell abroad. There is also another aspect in that the US market is a shrinking market vs emerging markets in both car buying AND US car buying.

Commonsense would assume that a country with vast highways and people that drive many more mile/kilometers than Europeans would have the more efficient power plants in their vehicles? Diesel cars make more sense in America than they do overseas, yet we're hung up over the bizarre EPA emission standards that favor the less efficient gasoline engine over the diesel. Things are changing, but it frustratingly comes pretty slow.

Hey, good discussion!  Valid points on all fronts. 

I suppose I'm a bit more sensitive than most on the issue, being that I live in Metro Detroit and we've been in a  single-state recession for 4 years now.  (oh, and UAW went on strike for a couple days lately).  I spent 3 years in Europe, and go to Italy every couple years.  It drives me nuts to see diesel caravans and wranglers over there, knowing there's a market here, and not being able to buy one here...

 The headquarters is within driving distance, so I felt like standing outside their door, screaming at the top of my lungs at them to wake up. (not really)

Another road block I see is that if they do offer it, nobody is gonna pay $35k for a wrangler...so they have to get the price right.  The Cherokees have the CRD, but they want $40-ish for it, which puts it out of the price range for many

TABO:

Another road block I see is that if they do offer it, nobody is gonna pay $35k for a wrangler...so they have to get the price right.  The Cherokees have the CRD, but they want $40-ish for it, which puts it out of the price range for many

Not really out of the price range at all. I’m 22 years old and I have one, and a truck that’s less than a year old. They are probably more expensive than what most people want to pay. They’d rather spend 25k on a mini-van and the rest on a motorcycle. All in where your priorities are I guess.

My Jeep is my toy, I don’t have any bikes, cars, or other hobbies take would require my money. I’m a Jeep fan, and the Jeep is what I got. The CRD was just a bonus. On the other hand, this is my 3^rd Grand Cherokee too. Oh, and if they offered a CRD in a Wrangler, I'd pay 35k for one. The Rubicon I was looking at was near that one way. I see loads of Rubicons on the road, so its not just me who has no problem putting up that kinda money for a Jeep.

I disagree ... pricing the only diesel in the Jeep line up at over $40K is not helping promote more diesels in the U.S. I will credit Jeep for bringing out the Liberty in previous years, but considering the only small diesels currently available are high end pick up trucks, premium SUVs and luxury Benzs, I would say the offerings are pretty sparse.

Let's hope this is about to change. 

Amen to that, Rich. What we really need are smaller diesel engines (but bigger than the 1.9 and 2.0L ones in our TDIs) that are tuned for efficiency. A pickup or small SUV/minivan that gets >30 MPG would be a major selling point for car manufacturers.

Rich:

I disagree ... pricing the only diesel in the Jeep line up at over $40K is not helping promote more diesels in the U.S. I will credit Jeep for bringing out the Liberty in previous years, but considering the only small diesels currently available are high end pick up trucks, premium SUVs and luxury Benzs, I would say the offerings are pretty sparse.

Let's hope this is about to change. 

IMHO, every truck, van, and SUV should come with a diesel option.

natescape:

Amen to that, Rich. What we really need are smaller diesel engines (but bigger than the 1.9 and 2.0L ones in our TDIs) that are tuned for efficiency. A pickup or small SUV/minivan that gets >30 MPG would be a major selling point for car manufacturers.

Rich:

I disagree ... pricing the only diesel in the Jeep line up at over $40K is not helping promote more diesels in the U.S. I will credit Jeep for bringing out the Liberty in previous years, but considering the only small diesels currently available are high end pick up trucks, premium SUVs and luxury Benzs, I would say the offerings are pretty sparse.

Let's hope this is about to change. 

The Jeep Liberty I drive uses the same transmission as the Dakota, has plenty of torque to tow and with even better gearing could easily get over 35 mpg. The 2.8 litre VM Motori engines used during the brief Liberty CRD experiment was successful. I understand that Cummins is going to be supplying powerplants for Chrysler's vans/SUV's/Ram 1500 but they are again (I think) oversizing the projected displacements. We used to be excited to have 300 ft/lbs. of torque out of an engine. Now diesels in trucks are topping 700 ft/lbs and many are used for relatively light duty service. 3-4 litres is plenty of engine for almost any service if mated with the proper gearing. I hope we see some 6 to 8 speed automatics in the near future in light to medium duty trucks. I never remember having trouble getting to market with Grandpa's old 6 cylinder Dodge P/U pulling cattle to auction or overloaded with hay for a winter feeding. The gearing seems to be the area needing immediate focus to allow truly economical mating of smaller diesels in more practically sized multi purpose vehicles or lt. trucks. I would be near the front of the line for a 4 door dakota 8 speed or equivalent and be happy to settle for a mere 333 ft/lbs of torque. 

Until then I'll put up with 28 mpg at 78 mph turning 2150 rpm's in my Liberty.